crimean tatar replica attempt

[Uli]

Dear all,

I have tried to replicate a crimean tatar bow (see pic)

technical details:
ntn original 142 cm my bow 146
string length original ? my bow 133cm
thickness sal original 1,5cm my bow 1,3cm
width sal original 3,3cm my bow 3cm

Materials:
core = 3-piece, ash for limbs, beech for grip
biconvex cross-section

from Pfeilschaft.de:
horn = water buffalo
sinew = deer
glue = rabbit (for core + horn)
+
sinewing with glue from sturgeon air bladder (supplied by PAZUZU)

tillering was done before sinewing, now there is only some small disbalance, so I plan to add some sinew at the weaker limb.

draw weight estimated 60-100 (not fully drawn yet)
I ll update on performance.

do you think I succeeded to copy the overall shape of the original ?
(some details like nock onserts and sinew wrapping are different)

has anyone made a replica of a crimean tatar bow ?

all comments and critiques are welcome !

Cheers out !
Uli

[Uli]

pics..

[Uli]

pics..

[Vonegelut]

Dear all,

I have tried to replicate a crimean tatar bow (see pic)

technical details:
ntn original 142 cm my bow 146
string length original ? my bow 133cm
thickness sal original 1,5cm my bow 1,3cm
width sal original 3,3cm my bow 3cm

Materials:
core = 3-piece, ash for limbs, beech for grip
biconvex cross-section

from Pfeilschaft.de:
horn = water buffalo
sinew = deer
glue = rabbit (for core + horn)
+
sinewing with glue from sturgeon air bladder (supplied by PAZUZU)

tillering was done before sinewing, now there is only some small disbalance, so I plan to add some sinew at the weaker limb.

draw weight estimated 60-100 (not fully drawn yet)
I ll update on performance.

do you think I succeeded to copy the overall shape of the original ?
(some details like nock onserts and sinew wrapping are different)

has anyone made a replica of a crimean tatar bow ?

all comments and critiques are welcome !

Cheers out !
Uli

WoW!! Interesting bow! I saw unstring crimean bow in Istanbul military museum(look at the picture) You know for me (I am only beginner) Your bow looks great!!!

[scemdonmez]

Uli:

Congratulations, good work. Kasan looks short, tip looks long, is it original measurement? In addition string/kasan angle is too low, it is not normal for Tatar bow(it is not good for stability). I advice heat the kasan/sal from horn side(not too much) and bend it till string does not touch the kasan.
The Tatar bow which is in İstanbul Military Museum is very strong, I examine it last year.

Cem

[Reto]

Uli,

first congratulations for the pics and sharing with us your experience. I also think the bow looks more like a composite bow from Afghanistan (See: Dr. E. Grayson Collection, "Bogen, Pfeile, K?cher", page 103 or link: http://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/grayso ... arrow.shtm ) . Maybe I am wrong, but the similarites in shape are pretty close...

Please do not change too much of this bow, rather make it a good weapon.

Reto

[Zarasp]

Uli,

Please do not change too much of this bow, rather make it a good weapon.

Reto

I agree, please test it if possible, without changing the design.

Great job!

[Vonegelut]

Uli:

Congratulations, good work. Kasan looks short, tip looks long, is it original measurement? In addition string/kasan angle is too low, it is not normal for Tatar bow(it is not good for stability). I advice heat the kasan/sal from horn side(not too much) and bend it till string does not touch the kasan.
The Tatar bow which is in İstanbul Military Museum is very strong, I examine it last year.

Cem

You are lucky! Do you work there? And how much powerful are this crimean bow?

[Zoran Pavlovic]

Hi Uli,
I am impressed by the look of your bow. Limbs bends nice (i love it). I suggest you only longer kasan and smaller angle of the siyahs (and shorter, though you will short it a bit) in your next attempt. Congratulations, you are on the good way now. Keep on workin' man.
Wish you all the best,
Zoran

[Uli]

Thank you for your support and advices !
Cem and Zoran: good points, I can see it now. especially the point about stability is important.
Reto: when building the bow I also noted this similarity to the indopersian design. These bows are appealing. However, the string in these does not touch the kasan either or ?
I consider making the kasan a bit longer by extending the sinew ridge, and straighten a bit by heat to be sure the string does only touch the kasan-bash transition.
let's see what happens..

[Bede]

I have to agree with some of the other comments. When I was at the Grayson collection I handled both the Crimean Tatar bows there. They were quite different in size and the bash or tip of the ear had two distinct forms. One was the regular shape you see and the other was proud either side of the notch for the string.

They both had string bridges. From the angle of these I would say that both bows were intended to be strung with their kasans at an angle to the string rather than almost parallel as you have achieved. Perhaps a shorted string might be the solution if you have made this bow to the size of an original one. Edward McEwen made a few of these bows. I was able to shoot one of the smaller ones and found it very smooth to draw, accurate to shoot and comfortable to use. He has commented in print that he finds these bows practical and pleasant to shoot.

[JJ]

Uli, very nice bow!

I would consider also using a shorter string and opening the curve of kasan-kasan eye region. The bow might untwist otherwise... And, like Bede pointed out, it would be a good idea to add a string bridge like in original bows.


(Milit?rhistorisches Museum Wien)

JJ

[scemdonmez]

Vonegelut:

Yes, I was there last year, I measured Ottoman and Tatar bows. İt was pleasure.

[Bede]

Cem and JJ,
Is it an optical illusion or do the original bows have fairly flat bellies on the grip and the reflex comes just afterwards? I say that because I felt in the bows I saw that the handle seemed more like a Turkish one with a reflex on each side of where you held it. this contrasts with Korean bows where the handle is curved on the belly side (and later built up with the applied hand support).

Notice also in JJ's picture, the string bridge is higher on the end towards the grip. The normal arrangement is for the string to leave the bridge parallel to its surface on the grip side since this is where the softer core of the string is.

[scemdonmez]

Bede,
Original Turkish bows have not flat bellies on the grip. Reflex start very near to grip in flight and -or target bows. Many bows I see grip and sal are straight-not reflexed ( in military and Topkapı; museum ). All I measured and see in old bows have always rounded grip bellies.

Cem