dimensions crimean tatar bow

alex27 · Post by **alex27** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:37 pm

Hi everybody

I am planning to build a crimean tatar bow, but am searching for dimensions.

I found a nice bow in the Grayson collection, p 67.
This bow is 148 cm long, 3.3 cm wide and 1.7 cm thick at midlimb.
I calculated the following dimensions from the picture:

grip 14 cm
limb 34.5 cm
kasan 18,5 cm
tip 14 cm (till nock 10.5 cm)

grip angle 150'
kasan angle 35-40'
tip angle 45- 50'

Are these dimensions about right? Does anybody have information about thickness compared to strength, while 17 mm at midlimb sounds quite a strong bow. What would one need for a bow of 70-80 lb.?

Thank you

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:37 pm

helpful comments and photos have been posted here:

http://atarn.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t ... sc&start=0

one of my favorites still is this one.

dimensions as given by Zoran Pavlovic:

142cm nock to nock
Grip:33mm thick, 27mm wide
Sal(bending sect.): 15.5mm thick, 33mm wide
Sal/Kasan:18 mm thick,32 wide
Kasan:21 thick,30mm wide
Kasan/tip: 19mm thick, 22.5 wide
Tip: 9.5 cm long 13mm wide

The length varies from about 49 to 56 inches between nocks. The ridged part of kasans is not longer than in Turkish bows, but the bows have the recurved section a little thicker (proportionally) towards the sals. Again, ths varies from bow to bow. The kasans are about 17-20mm thick in the middle, and the tips are about 20mm thick and 12-15mm wide with the horn insert. The sal is the thinnest about the middle (not so close to kasan as in Turkish bows) and the width is around 35mm, the thickness on the average about 14-17mm. But as you know the side ridges at sal add about 2mm to the thicknness, so the middle is thinner than that. The grips have dimensions about the same as a bigger Turkish bow - something like 35mm thick x 25+mm wide.

you find a wealth of tatar bows in the Skokloster museum here:
(a link once given by Redhorse)

http://emuseumplus.lsh.se/eMuseumPlus

Write the word pilb?ge (copy and paste) and it will show weapons.
Try pil, turkiet, pilkoger also.

also some nice pictures in this document:
http://atarn.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2141

good luck !!

Fenris · Post by **Fenris** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:31 pm

@Uli

unfortunatly the pics of your bow have disapeared. Can you please post them again

?

regards Kevin

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:00 pm

yep because storage amount is limited

the bow ended up about 60 lbs and can be drawn to 32 inch.

it's really not easy to stabilize a bow with such strong reflex in siyahs.

next time I want to keep the bending section closer to grip to get a stronger bow (see the issue with the Zargalant bow) and more brace height.

also my bow has a biconvex cross-section, while the originals have semi-convex cross-section with lateral sinew ridges..

alex27 · Post by **alex27** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:28 pm

Thank you Uli for the information
I am working on the core today, I will post my progress!

Fenris · Post by **Fenris** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:39 pm

Great! Thank you

!

regards Kevin

M Hardman · Post by **M Hardman** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:08 pm

Nice looking bow Uli!

It might just be the orientation of the bow in the top photograph, but to me it looks like there might be a small hinge in the middle of the uppermost as we see it) bending section.

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:48 pm

hehe eagle-eye !
this is right and it did worry me pretty much, so I put an extra layer of sinew over this part. so far however on drawing the "hinge" behaves smoothly (does not aggravate), on the contrary this was even the stronger limb.

PS: in the photo the impression of "hinge" is a bit exagerated because there horn lateral side is a bit flattened here.

alex27 · Post by **alex27** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:06 pm

Hi
This is the core till now. I used ash for limbs and a piece of maple for grip.
The tips are spliced in and made from maple and oak laminates (it's not traditional, but it works perfect to get a fast bend) The grip is not spliced but glued on.
The length I am aiming for is about 58".

Any comments welcome, please

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:10 pm

very nice. I already recognize the red tatar from the Grayson Collection.

IMHO the grip in crimean tatar bows was V-spliced.
your siyah V-splice does not reach the prospective kasan eye.
you can make up for that by forming a triangular cross section anyways.

Botondbow · Post by **Botondbow** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:13 am

Uli,
You made again a very good looking bow, congratulation! Thanks for sharing the info!

Would you also post some pics on your unbraced and drawned tatar bow!

alex27 · Post by **alex27** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:38 am

Uli,
didn't know that the v-splice went all the way to the kasan eye, that's a long way! The splice is 10 cm, should be sufficient anyways.
Normally I would splice the grip, but I am working on a Magyar bow as well, taking P?ter Bencsik's bows as an example, and he glues the grip on like this too. Because I was aiming for the same grip angle, I did it the same way

Are the dimensions from Zoran Pavlovic meant for a bow of about 60 lb.?
How thick is your sinew layer?

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:46 am

Thank you ! pictures follow..

Alex: Zoran's dimensions are for the original.
it will make a 80lbs bow or more I guess if you pay attention to
- bending closer to grip
- enough time to cure (my bow only 2 months before first brace)
- reflex during manufacture (my bow tips did not "kiss")
( for security I have omitted these points

)

sinew at mid-limb is about 3mm (+ 5mm horn + 5mm wood + 1mm reindeer leather and laquer )

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:49 am

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:55 am

drawn