Very close (arm) distance training target (Torba, Makiwara)

[Bede]

Murat,
Thanks for the explanation. The way that "g?rgen" is translated in Hein suggests that he was translating directly using dictionaries of the time. Unfortunately I haven't got an original copy of Kani though I know someone with a facsimile. I will ask them to look it up for us.

Your point about the Mongols and the Seljuks makes sense particularly in the reference to beech.

[Adam Karpowicz]

Orange

I am curious what you will find to be the best target for a small room, please keep experimenting!

For shooting from a close distance of no more than 2m, I now use a smallish feed bag stuffed with crumpled plastic placed in front of a heavy piece of conveyor belt (rubber/canvas, 1/2+in thick). The bag alone does not stop the arrows, but is soft enough to let the arrows flex while holding them in place, while the belt stops all arrows without problems. Target points of arrows shot from bows close to 150lb may go about 1/3 of the way in, that's it. The main problem is the bag itself, since the woven material (can be synthetic or burlap) goes to shreds in no time and have to be replaced. If someone knows a better material for the bags, plese let me know.

I also used a bucket stuffed with plastic covered at the front with some burlap, plus the conveyor belt, as a little tidier arrangement.

A few years ago, I had a large block of plasticine for the target. It worked very well, but it made arrows so dirty I abandoned the idea.

For an outdoor target nothing beats a pile of sand.

Adam

[orange]

Well, from my experience a wood names is not only issue here, also a wood quality, because wood structure is different as is different place where it grow.

This summer I spend vacation with my family in Czech hills on old sawmill there 2 centuries ago was produced a acoustic resonance wood from spruce.

While normal spruce is relatively fragile and non homogeneous, acoustic resonance wood from is spruce very constant in structure. There was museum of such wood and examples under a simple microscope and differences in wood structure was amazing. Such difference is just because same type of tree for acoustic resonance wood grow very slowly on place with less water and sun shine for 170 years

I am afraid then what ever wood is was used for arrows in past, type of grow was similar to one used in acoustic resonance wood, which is very rare today.

[orange]

Adam,

From solid based targets some of us use a large very strong sack used for to store a food (potatoes,onion) in 50kg max quantity for wintertime, they are looks as synthetics asymmetric nets in various density, look for pictures:





its necessary to pick up right sack density so arrow will move/diver net structure, not destroy it.

As fill in best is to use a cutoffs waste from production of synthetic curtains/veiling, they can be get from curtains making companies from $10 for big sack.

But as all solid targets, they are don't have end less life time.

Beside soft target principle I will finish description soon, they are nice solid targets based on BALLS principle, they can be probably used for bows with more then 80LB poundage which will have necessary high energy target entrance energy.

Small Balls targets principle like bullet recovery systems are based on hard rubber balls which emulate full-bodied liquid like behavior by usage of solid materials:



Remember, I was repairing old paintball guns

Be inspired by such target idea is to get a large enough U shape small balls holder, fill it with modern plastic 6mm Airsoft ammo/bullets (best will be ones wrapped with silicone),
on them put net and as needed pressure generator put there right amount of metal balls used to make bearings.

By adding right amount of metal bearings balls target can adjust for stronger bows

Of course, we can seek for cheaper stuff then metal bearings balls, top covering material must be relatively heavy and loose/powdery easily movable. For example cheaper aquarium small decorative slick crusted stones can be used instead.

Another option can be to use just enough glass balls directly as fill-inGlass balls

Only we need to experiment how to make an arrow entry zone of such target to keep balls inside and to carefully catch arrows it before balls start move so it will not bounce back.

PS: Of course not sharp points must be used for such target !

[orange]

Before we will dive to more experiments with Torba like soft target, I must give you small warning about close range archery shutting:

Waring, from short distance arrows can bounce back to you and make a injury. Take care to protect your eyes

While shutting eyes are not in front to target, so you need to take a protection Goggles/Eyewear/Glasses with side protection too like on picture with protection level at least of class F (European) - resistant from low power mechanical forces.

I use cheap certified one peace ones as this:





Our Hard Coating can meet up to ASTM 659 / EN 168 N Mark / EN 166 K Mark.
Scratch resistance and good impact resistance, resistance to U.S. military specifications for steel ball impact test about 650 ft / sec.

Feature brow and solid side shields for splash protection.

Preventing arrows to bounce directly to you:

It's not 100% possible to prevent then arrow will not bounce back. Any target need to have stand from relatively solid material and so on.

But we can prevent then arrow will bounce to you with high probability and in full power.

When arrow bounce back and is not eaten by target, it bend first - arrow make a letter C, which will consume some energy, after is straighten and in vibrate in S shapes and jump back.

1. Don't have on target and stand surface which are directly to you in 90 degrees angel - if we look on Torba usage pictures target and stand are under angels. While we assuming then it's because they train flight, safety can be also a reason. Arrow will be force by angle to bounce out from an archer. (Also some old Makiwara pictures use angel too)

2. Both Torba and Makiwara use a (bi)conical arrows, where center of mass is moved from bend center of arrow (more mass is on end)

Together with smaller points this help (bi)conical arrow to better penetrate target and also if bounce bounce more heavy nock part and will open end of letter C, making more open angel when bending back. So I am putting some duck tape on my not conical aluminum arrows to have similar affect.

3. By adjusting distance you can help arrow to enter target in optimal part of S movement, which help better target penetration. Each arrows are different and this need a little experimenting to find right distance. For example for my 45lb/30" bow with stronger 50lb arrows used for torba like soft target right distance is ~ 1,5 arrow length.

[jack farrell]

I realise that there are two discussions going on this thread but I would like to comment on arrow materials. It is not surprising that there is confusion about the common names of Turkish trees. This is a common phenomen which was the reason for Latinizing species names. The problem was a world wide problem.

Beech includes all the oaks and may involve hundreds of varieties so in itself is not very descriptive.

I have examined Turkic war arrows in many museums and what stood out was that the wood was identifiable and with common grain pattern. I said to myself, "I could make those arrows." Considering the millions of arrows used in antiquity for war purposes, it seems highly unlikely that resonance quality wood was a necessity. That SOME arrows were made of this material does not seem unreasonable.

Wood is not becoming inferior. Some wood is being grown for construction purposes which is definitely inferior to wild material but otherwise, wood is ok. Many rare types are threatened, I will acknowledge. Jack

[Bede]

You can make a torba out of cardboard by stacking layers of it made from 40-50 cm wide pieces. Once you have it built to the height and width you want, you can wrap packing tape around the layers to hold them firmly together. You need strong cardboard of the type large appliances or PCs are shipped in. The layers have to be compressed together to make a strong target. Mostly this type of material is thrown out so you are able to get it for free.