Bamboo arrow debate

[jchocz]

Making 20-30 arrows to get one set (lets say 12) of good ones (ones that fly right) is impractical. Can't imagine old masters doing it, they simply couldn't afford loosing time like that.

Rods have sorted into sets by weight and stiffness.

Completely finish 20-30 arrows and trying to make one set of arrows. The remainder will use the arrows to another set (although I make arrow shafts from the same group). We sort but complete arrows. I want to use every stick.

[jchocz]

So let us all do as we want. I shoot my decorated arrows every week but at an archery range. If there was the possibility of loss, I would switch to blunts. No ceremony, a contest. Personally, I have learned not to make a strong statement here which I am not prepared to demonstrate is true.

Shoot well. Peace. Jack

I do not make strong statements. It's the opposite. I expressed doubt. They knew in the 19th century (or earlier in time) the rules of the ISO quality? They knew in the 19th century rules for design (DIN, ISO, etc.)? The answer is NO. Currently, we are all (with bows and arrows) produced according to standards. In the past, each manufacturer of bows and arrows to use your wits and more innovative. Otherwise, not development.

Jack, with you I'm always happy to discuss. Different perspectives enrich!

[Dusan]

I dont understand your position Jichoč. You dont make historical replica arrows. You dont make traditional arrows. You make somthing like cure between vith plastic nocks, glued crests... Arrows for your practis . Only one thing is traditional- bamboo. Thats all.
Its your choice.

Now about hostoric arrows makers.Yes every one try and search his way, but in top all understand relatively same principes. Its tipical for all human crafts.(bows too)
Another human manner is search sistem. Somthing like your "ISO " , or how we call this. Every craftsman vith his years experiences ended vith somthing like his personal "ISO" and his apprentice teach and continue. If his arrows was succesfully use and popular, all another craftsmans copiing his "sistem".All this human customs work evan in neolit ...

[stiventiger]

Stiventiger, you can make shafts very stiff, about 120-130 spine?
My arrows are made from chinese bamboo ans thi sis the spine, the mass is about 600-700 grains in 88 cm length.

of course,why not,but our spinetester is maximum 92# and very less person use 120-130#,so,we cancel this spine group and use more popular spine group,if you want 120-130#,
1) we must get spine tester to 150#
2)the diamter we guess to 11-12mm minimum to match your request,but if you need samll order,it is not worth to produce them,it is first time i listen people need 120-130,i listen somebday need 100# shafts

[stiventiger]

anyway everybady do exllent speech to let many people to see bamboo arrow more clearly,those are great topic in archey histroy.
at least many people will know what is japanese and korean bamboo arrows and what is tiger bamboo arrows,what is the diffirecne.
important is each person have right attitue:just state his points and not attack person with with borshit words,that is get my respection.all are great guy!!!

[jchocz]

I dont understand your position Jichoč. You dont make historical replica arrows. You dont make traditional arrows. You make somthing like cure between vith plastic nocks, glued crests... Arrows for your practis . Only one thing is traditional- bamboo. Thats all.
Its your choice.

I said that I make replicas of arrows? No. I want to make good arrows. Arrows Asian (Korean, Japanese and Chinese) I like it. I want to keep the look and especially the proximity of good functionality.

[ginni]

I remember one very good arrow I had, which was very stiff, very round in section and very straight. Even after few months of using it was straight like a carbon. I didn't straightened it after I made it ready, and until the day I broke it it was still straight.
But, even the expectation for such perfect arrow it was very high and I had every time a very fast flight, after a while I gave up to use it because it was imprecise. Even with twisted arrows impossible to straighten I achieved more yellows in the target than with this one, and only reason I found for this strange behavior is the placement of nodes.
This have only two nodes, one about two inches from half to the nock, another about two inches from the point.
So, for me, the placement of the nodes is very important.
Another point, after a while, the surviving arrows in my quiver after long period of shooting are naturaly selected from those with korean style placemend of nodes. And those so bad that I dont shoot them

[stiventiger]

I dont understand your position Jichoč. You dont make historical replica arrows. You dont make traditional arrows. You make somthing like cure between vith plastic nocks, glued crests... Arrows for your practis . Only one thing is traditional- bamboo. Thats all.
Its your choice.

I said that I make replicas of arrows? No. I want to make good arrows. Arrows Asian (Korean, Japanese and Chinese) I like it. I want to keep the look and especially the proximity of good functionality.


very beautiful ,like real art,just look is enjoying

[stiventiger]

I remember one very good arrow I had, which was very stiff, very round in section and very straight. Even after few months of using it was straight like a carbon. I didn't straightened it after I made it ready, and until the day I broke it it was still straight.
But, even the expectation for such perfect arrow it was very high and I had every time a very fast flight, after a while I gave up to use it because it was imprecise. Even with twisted arrows impossible to straighten I achieved more yellows in the target than with this one, and only reason I found for this strange behavior is the placement of nodes.
This have only two nodes, one about two inches from half to the nock, another about two inches from the point.
So, for me, the placement of the nodes is very important.
Another point, after a while, the surviving arrows in my quiver after long period of shooting are naturaly selected from those with korean style placemend of nodes. And those so bad that I dont shoot them

I am little confused

[stiventiger]

this guy get championship to use my bamboo arrows,he is so pride and send me email below:
Hello Mr Tiger!

Long time no seen!
hope everything is good whit you!

here everything is great:)

i promised to send you some photos when we used the arrows we brought from you!
they helped me to take the first place in the swedish championship of horseback archery, and now i got an inventaion to Jordania from the royal court:)


i where woundering if you got 5/16 arrow heads to? i saw that you got 11/32 in stock on Ebay. but i can't fit them on the bambushafts or pine shaft that i use...
Best Regards Emil
as i said,bamboo arrow are most used on horse archery during 20-30meter

[jack farrell]

Oh Stiven; It is really too bad that your bamboo will not produce Korean type shafts more than one in a hundred. Please let me show you how I find them. I go to the garden store and buy packages of bamboo sticks. There are only six sticks in a package so here is an example of ten packages or 60 sticks. This is them in the first picture.

[jack farrell]

Then I cut them as I have described, and in the drawing I made for you. This is the second picture. You can see that these 60 garden sticks (Tonkin cane, from China!) make about 18 perfect Korean arrow sticks between 20 and 29 grams.

It also makes the four heavy sticks 30 to 40 grams like Ginni likes. It also makes the 8 sticks with random spaced nodes like the arrows you are selling. I don't really enjoy these but I keep them for beginners to use until they are experienced enough to move up. There are also many sticks less than 20 grams which are perfect for children's arrows. There remain about 15 garden quality sticks so there is no waste at all. Isn't this excellent for the environment?

But I am always looking for the sellers of the garden sticks to only buy the kind I want and not all the extra sizes. This would also cost less to ship and save more resources.

If you want to answer, please do not copy my entire message. This wastes Stephen's computer storage space. Just start with "Jack" and I will understand your meaning. Jack

[stiventiger]

jack

1)we never use such bent material to do arrow shafts,as they need a lot of time to straight them,you can try make some and tell how long time you use,may be it is for DIY way,not for big production.
2)from photos,i just see first nodes is flatter and rest is not same diatance of nodes as your first photo and our shaft already 70-80 % is flatter
3)you sort them also for children arrow,and we sort them into 84 and 100cm,not for children use?how can i sell to children market?
4)anyway you insist on korean style,but is ok for DIY ,but not for production
5) if you can tell me how much cost for your way to make them into finally shafts?i guess cost minimum 1.5-2$/pc without carbonization and sand out bamboo skin and varnish and sort them into spine group and apckage,if complete all process,will be 3.5$/pc,i tell you i can do such way,but i will sell 5$/pc including shipping
6)korean and japanese is their way,why must i follow them?why i cann't insist on our way?and our shafts is already sold more than many times amount than their selling market for many years,and i sell only 4 years ,and already sold out 200,000pcs worldwide,i don't trust japan or korean can sell my amount,may be they sell only 1/10th.
7)why people use only benz,not volkwagen or honda?market need vaired products,not alway same product.graden need many flower,not only 1 type of flowyers,anyway you are stiff guy,but need widely heart and widely point of view of the market
8)you see what is our bamboo material,very straight and clean but some of them were ready for threw out

[ginni]

Stivetiger,

My point is that the location of the first node, counting from notch of the arrow to the tip, is very important for me. I found that after shooting random made bamboo arrows and by comparison.
My arrows breaks when I miss the target and hit some hard like concrete wall or target legs. Also I lose arrows in grass when I miss the target.
So, is a natural selection of arrows after some time, I lose the arrows which I miss more often the target and I dont lose the best arrows which I dont miss the target.
And after some time I found in my quiver almost only arrows with the first node from 17 to 24 cm from the nock.
For me this a an argue strong enough for choosing my shafts by following the placement of nodes..

BTW, from my point of view, korean and japaneze bamboo were not like Mercedes but like Rolls Royce. My arrows looks like an old Defender

[jack farrell]

Stiven; I never had such beautiful sticks to work with.

Please let me ask you a question. First the Tonkin stick is cut off at the ground. Where do you decide where the next cut will be placed?

Do you work with the entire stick or is it sent to you already cut to length?