Bamboo arrow debate

[stiventiger]

Stivetiger,

My point is that the location of the first node, counting from notch of the arrow to the tip, is very important for me. I found that after shooting random made bamboo arrows and by comparison.
My arrows breaks when I miss the target and hit some hard like concrete wall or target legs. Also I lose arrows in grass when I miss the target.
So, is a natural selection of arrows after some time, I lose the arrows which I miss more often the target and I dont lose the best arrows which I dont miss the target.
And after some time I found in my quiver almost only arrows with the first node from 17 to 24 cm from the nock.
For me this a an argue strong enough for choosing my shafts by following the placement of nodes..

BTW, from my point of view, korean and japaneze bamboo were not like Mercedes but like Rolls Royce. My arrows looks like an old Defender

i still in confused for your mention,if you send me emial:[email protected],
and send me photo and mark your notes ,my english is not so well,i need picture to understand well
thanks

[stiventiger]

Stiven; I never had such beautiful sticks to work with.

Please let me ask you a question. First the Tonkin stick is cut off at the ground. Where do you decide where the next cut will be placed?

Do you work with the entire stick or is it sent to you already cut to length?

in fact,we sort material,if good to make bamboo shafts,if not good,we make ceremony bamboo arrow shafts to japanese,we sell japanese 1 million pcs each year for their tranditional ceremony bamboo arrows,many japanese love bamboo arrow very much in their religion,many japanese buy at least 1 bamboo arrow and put it in their home to pray that bamboo arrow will kill evil to protect their family.they say:bamboo arrow kill evil (破魔矢）
and they burnt it each year and buy second 1 for next year,(they think old bamboo arrow already kill evil and bamboo body already dirty,so, they need new bamboo arrows to kill evil again)it is their trandition.so,if you travel to japan and find out their religion church,you will see many bamboo arrows(not very straight)in their church.
and there are a lot of tonkin bamboo arround out factory,but we don't use them,as they are not straight enough to match our standards,we choice best bamboo material from 200-300km,and we just show local person our need bamboo material sample and local person will go to montain to cut the bamboo material depend our requests.and them they send to us.cut bamboo material they will go to 800-1200meter higher montain which sunshine is enough and very remote place always living best bamboo;very staright and very stiff.

[jack farrell]

But Stiven; do the cutters bring back the entire stick or do they bring back a certain length ? How do you cut the ends clean and even?

[stiventiger]

But Stiven; do the cutters bring back the entire stick or do they bring back a certain length ? How do you cut the ends clean and even?

sorry,something concern some secret,i can't reply

[jack farrell]

Well Stiven; Herein lays the entire issue. I see that there is much use of Tonkin for fencing, matting and other uses.

It seems possible that these sticks are actually the byproduct of another manufacturing process and therefore it is not controllable how the nodes are laid out. Surely the cutters are not controlling the quality of the arrows.

I feel fairly sure that SOME Koreans would buy sticks if they were laid out in their pattern. Since MOST Koreans already use carbon arrows, some modern fletchers surely would substitute your sticks IF they found them acceptable. Tonkin is superior to carbon, and prettier.

[stiventiger]

Well Stiven; Herein lays the entire issue. I see that there is much use of Tonkin for fencing, matting and other uses.

It seems possible that these sticks are actually the byproduct of another manufacturing process and therefore it is not controllable how the nodes are laid out. Surely the cutters are not controlling the quality of the arrows.

I feel fairly sure that SOME Koreans would buy sticks if they were laid out in their pattern. Since MOST Koreans already use carbon arrows, some modern fletchers surely would substitute your sticks IF they found them acceptable. Tonkin is superior to carbon, and prettier.

tonkin are widely used in many fields,even bamboo fly rods,we use tonkin is not only for making bamboo arrow shafts,bamboo arrow shafts is only chain of products,it is my invention to make them into bamboo arrow shafts,but we also control the quality if material selection:we choice best quality bamboo material into bamboo arrows shafts,most important is we must think about the cost if we choice korean style, and with our style,we can produce a lot amount and faster speed ,with korean style we produce few amount and expensive and very slowly speed,our aim is make them into economic price bamboo arrow shaft,why we follow them still produce expensive style,each production must consider market position of your products.
in bamboo arrow shafts field,already japan and korean produce delux style,why we follow them to make new deluxy?and nobady ganrantee our deluxy can sell well,but i am sure economic is always widely use,if yo u like delux and you have enough money,you can buy japanese and korean,very simple and easy,but infact,many my bigger seller already opne japanese kuydo club door and lay out our shafts,it is natural,many menber already choice our shafts instead of their expensive type,nobady throw out money randomly when they see our quality is very nice compare with their type,at least our shafts show very stiff and tolenrence and more beauty art looking,and its price is only 1/10th -1/20th of them with even better shoot results.nobady is fool in this world,i am sure that japanese and korean will lose their market in future each year,i am sorry for this happen,they should copy my industry produce way:make good quality with economic price.
but unforturnatly,it is very dificult to copy our way.

[Orda Khan]

Those bamboo pics were simply beautiful Enough there for years of fun.
Jack, if you had 100 Tiger shafts I'm sure you would find that fletch node spacing on most of them, especially if you are shortening them. ( I bought four from a medieval fayre that just about matched for nodes and made arrows that weigh 489, 490, 494 and one slightly lighter at 449 grains. That's pretty good for four random shafts.) Of the others I am also confident that some will react similarly in flight. I've found this myself, one odd arrow that shouldn't, but does.
I'm certainly glad of the opportunity to buy economically priced bamboo, it allows me to replace any damaged or 'back to the wild' arrows without a big dent in the wallet. I also enjoy the whole process and for this I can cut my own bamboo but I then have a year to wait before making them into arrows.
(I wish my bamboo grew as straight as those in the pics)

[Orda Khan]

Ok,I was going to wait until I'd finished making these but the weather has put me on hold waiting for fletchings. These are my home grown shafts ...
At the top are some that I cut yesterday and below them are some that were cut back in spring. The straightened shafts were harvested in autumn 2009. Node uniformity is pretty consistent and I'm looking forward to trying them out.
You can see one complete arrow and if you look at the nodes here, you will see four. There are in fact five as there is a node at the nock. I was disappointed at having to fit a plastic nock on this one but there was not enough diameter for a self nock like the others. The point is 63gr and the shaft is just 9/32" at this end. Total arrow weight is 394gr, I tried it on wednesday and it flies like a missile. Maybe I will manage to find a few more like this for a set.
Most of the shafts are coming in between 303 and 375gr bare weight.

[Orda Khan]

I forgot to mention the bottom two shafts. Only two nodes but still nicely placed, all my wifes arrows have this pattern and they are great arrows. I won't overlook these two, it will be interesting to find out if there is any difference.

[stiventiger]

I forgot to mention the bottom two shafts. Only two nodes but still nicely placed, all my wifes arrows have this pattern and they are great arrows. I won't overlook these two, it will be interesting to find out if there is any difference.

as if most people love bamboo,here also most chinese love bamboo very much,bamboo soul is very straght and stiff and tolerence,we say we have similar soul:chinese is very straight and stiff and tolenrence people.we say :we prefer to eat without meat,but we must live together with bamboo (宁可食无肉，不可居无竹） and 2008 olimpic ceremony in beijing:1 huge bamboo books open to show chinese history:in ancient china,chinese use bamboo as a book,people write words or letter on bamboo blanks,konfujiu wrote his famouse book on bamboo blanks 2000year ago.

[ginni]

Orda Khan, your bamboo looks very good quality, it looks not like tonkin.

[Ashbow]

Nice bunch of sticks Orda. Me likes!
If your arrows are so thin at the nock end and you still don't want to use plastic nocks, then the wooden plug, Korean style, and a bit of sinew over that should still do the trick.

[Storm]

Orda, why do you cut your sticks so short from your garden? I usually buy 47" sticks and turn them into 33" arrows. It is much easier to pair them up node to node if you have more material to work with. I think 3" spare at each end would be enough and you don't loose too much material. Or you could pair them up before harvesting, but that may take too much time.

[Orda Khan]

A Korean nock was going to prove extremely hard work, Ashbow. The diameter is slightly under 1/4" and is a node, solid and very hard. That shaft, for its small diameter, is dense and quite stiff, nearly 35". I must search for a few more like it.

Hello Storm,
I cut the entire culm back to the ground and remove the top at a point that is too thin. The length is usually around six feet or more. These matched easily as you can see, the cut end on the left is ground level. Pseudosasa Japonica can reach fifteen feet or more but culms of this size are rarely any good. If you hunt around there are some that are a nice diameter and the nodes often match up nicely.

[Ashbow]

Hmm, are you facing a problem of drilling the nock end to recieve the plug then? It shouldn't be problem with an up to the job tool. What I've used is a flat woodworking bit secured in the vice, and drilled the shafts rolling them in my hands, sort like making a fire with a hand drill, like the Koreans do, apart taht the Koreans seems to have a superior tool to mine, sort of a conical file, should work way much better, the drill stucks from time to time and one has to be a bit careful, also it's good idea to wrap the nock ends with sinew before drilling them out, as otherwise they have a tendency to split.

As to the small diameter of the nock end, I belive it still would be possible to make a sort of a build up nock, if the plug/bamboo joint is reinfroced with sinew, the plug can be pretty thin in this spot. You can make up for shape with sinew wery well.
This method works very well for me.

Just thinking loud, maybe it will be of some help, forget if you already have decided to discard this solution. By the way I have nothing against plastic nocks.