Interesting Asiatic Bows in Russian Collections

Gleb · Post by **Gleb** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:26 am

Please pay attention to the arrow hold or release in the first picture. It looks something in between secondary, Penobscot and artist fantasy based on Sasanid bowls. Or maybe the artist wrongly depict the Chinese release with the index finger that goes along with the arrow.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:12 pm

Gleb nice pics . Maybe i Fedorov is one from mi coleges in Artists Surikov Institut where i study in Moscow 6 years.

But ... bows looks litle like Grozer laminate bows and arrows have litle high feathers..

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:40 pm

Stephen, thanks for your decent word about mi english. Importent is if you understand me.

I know this article about Buryat bows , but 1 time see is better then 10 time read . Its beatiful bow , loks much more better and practicible, then todays touristic"mongols" Nadaam bows.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:59 pm

The man holding the Buryat bow is Taras, the author of the article published here on atarn. That is, I believe also his plan for the bow. Would be nice to hear more about him, what he is working on, how he came by the Buryat bow.

The illustration with the sword (looks like a page from a book) is the same sword as in the Houston Mongol display, the prancing lion sword.

I agree that looking at a bow in person is the best experience. Until then it is good to read about it. -j-

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:59 am

Yes , Jack. That plan is from same site , like pics- maybe from Taras. I dont know that he is autor this article. Why , he personali dont send pics to Atarnet ..?

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:05 pm

Dusan; Either Stephen or Thomas D or both were in communication with him at one time. All of this was posted here at once. My Russian friend and I hammered out the translation still here on Buryat archery. (I do not speak any Russian).

The Russian maintains that the word translated there as thumb ring really means thimble. -j-

Gleb · Post by **Gleb** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:01 pm

Dusan, Jack!

The man with Buryat bow on the picture – owner of this device. Taras Plakhotnichenko is the owner of this site http://archeryring.nm.ru/index.html, and the man who took all the measurements and pictures of this Buryat bow.

Jack, I did not understand who maintained that the word translated there as thumb ring really means thimble? Since the beginning of 17 century (or may be even earlier, I’m not a specialist in this field) in written Russian sources used the term “the ring for the bow shooting”. After Peter the Great (1682-1725) faced Russia to the Western Hemisphere and European culture the art of archery seems to be disappeared very quickly.

The thumbrings that look s as thimbles are found in South Siberia and dated Early Iron Age in so called Tagar culture. Here is the picture. By the way I have seen somewhere in Atarn image archive the same thumbring-thimble.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:23 pm

Yes i foun this archeologic thumb rings.

I understand Jack

, Slavic language is hard problem from many Anglosas people. In our country is "only" 19 years from last Russian hour in school and this generation young Slovak people have trouble too vith brothers language

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:19 pm

I found new traditional bowmaker in Buriatya.Article " Nation of bow and arrowhead"(2007) say about first Buryat who try re-borning this old tradition in Buryatya - Kalmik Dylgyr Cylendorjyev . Kalmik nation have a long tradytion vith bows. Chinas peple coll him (like Koreans ?) Bow and arowhead nation. Last war vith bows and arows was vhen Russian soldiers vith Kalmiks horsearchers attacking in 1812 Paris !
Dylgir angry vhen see in traditio Sur-Chabran national sports meeting see Kalmiks shots vith english or modern European Bows.He have in fathers home old traditional bow and starting teaching how constructin old vay. Nowbody dont know anything. (Like in others conutry or us) He say that his first bow vith plastick strip in horns place (becasue he havent horn) crushit when hi shooting . Today he have 3 finished bows . He say that best wood is birch young wood grow in valley, and only north side .Then wood boiling and dry.Fish glue is imposible buy in Buryatya than he use bone glue...

In 2008 meet in ALTARGAN sports meeting . 175 archers (52 woman) shots in 30 and 40 metres. Only fue of archers have old Klamiks bow.

Grozer have his funs in Buryatya too...

old bow its look like that from Taras article

Kalmik horsearcher in tipical litle asiatic horse

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:28 pm

Hurrah for you guys, doing a good job. Did not know that Buryat archery was alive and well. Note that the horn photo of Taras' bow is grey color. This is Tien Shan Ibex horn.

The "Russian" is my friend, Tartar, Turkmeni, Uzbek translator non archer person.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:40 am

Exaktli, its Ibex horn. I mean that all mongol region bows construct in histori only vith Ibex horns. Cow horns havnt this plastic , reflex qualities .+ Ibex horns have his beutiful curvature. Most of it- you dont need hunting Ibex for horns because in mountins in this time are thousands Ibex . All males in his sexual period fighting vith each other and many of males dy in rocks, fue of them was catched from snow leopard... You must only walking in mountain and salvage horns like mushrooms

One of mi friends every year tracking in Himalayas and sayd me that near paths in mountains are many bulks from ibex horns building from mountains tribes ... Its terryble i can not buy Ibex horns- its very dear

Like this

older pic

990 us dol. for 2 Ibex...

Gleb · Post by **Gleb** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:34 pm

Yes, finally I dig iut the pictures form Atarn archive. The same style thumbring-thimble. Do not know the whole story but it looks Tagar culture!

Gleb · Post by **Gleb** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:11 pm

Here is the combined picture of Moschevaya Balka wooden quiver drawing and a picture from public exhibition.

Please be aware of metric system scale!

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:48 am

Just to clear up the concept of thimbles in different languages, Russian is not the only language where the same word is used for thimble, a sewing accessory, is used for an archer's ring. The reason is simple because the two things protect a finger. The thumb is often not separated from other fingers in generic terms. The Persian word angushtvaneh really means finger protector too and is used for both devices.

Turkish is different because zihgir comes from a Persian expression combining the word bowstring zih, with the ending -gir. Shast is sometimes used in several languages (Chagatai Turkish, Persian) and it can just mean thumb as well as archer's ring.

The illustrated objects look more like thimbles than thumb rings, but if they were smaller and you put them on your fingers they would be good for the Mediterranean draw.