Yanghai (Scythian) bow weight tested

[hcspng]

Is there any page on this forum or on the net that include structure or reconstruction of the Scythian bows?

[Adam Karpowicz]

Thanks Dusan, I suppose I could use photobucket too. I am not sure how this forum works though, I understand the limit is 200MB per user. I doubt I have used that much space for my uploads.

Adam

[jack farrell]

Hcspng; Go back to Hardware subject and go down 11 topics to Scythian type bows from Yanghai. We have all been amazed by Stephen's post.

Adam; just learn how to resize a photo. Manage your limit through your listing on the membership list. It lists your current availability. A link below your name shows where all your images are and their volume.

I am constantly deleting to make room for my copious new posts. Stephen used to save good images, stored above in Image Album, but much good stuff has gone away. He probably needs help from members, which was not forthcoming, I assume.

[jack farrell]

Bede; There is a clear difference between Eastern (so far, Xinjiang, China, and Siberia) Scythian archery gear and Western (Black Sea area, and Russia).

First of all, western material appears mostly to be the result of treasure hunting in royal Scythiian kurgans. The only things never found in large Kurgan burials are gold crowns and bows. I attribute this to the story in Herodotus about how Hercules' youngest son comes to own his bow and Kingship of Scythia. Therefore the bow of a Scythian king could not be buried because the lineage would end.

Eastern material comes from graves of commoners buried side by side and not in kurgans, The easterners are also warriors to a man but have no nation to pass to their sons. They must have thought a bow would come in handy for the deceased as everyone is buried with his, and strung, ready to fight!

Eastern bows, judging from the bowcases are more robust than western and the arrows much more so. The SRMS Scythian arrows were approximately 28 inches in length and stout like those of other cultures.

Nor can we say that armor was not well developed in the late bronze and iron ages. Entire suits of scale armor have been found. We do not know how prevalent armor was, though. Typically small arrow points indicate armored targets. The points are looking for a small opening.

These are just some comments and are not meant to refute anything you have stated. Jack

[Adam Karpowicz]

Thanks Jack. I have only filled 9% of my quota and still the size limit for the attachment is 256K... There should be plenty of room for a 900K picture.

Adam

[Adam Karpowicz]

I hope it works...

[Adam Karpowicz]

It did. The bow has even tiller (both limbs are about the same max. distance from the string). It may be disputable, but I think it is probably true, since most old bows have a sharper bend/string follow in the lower (shorter) limb, even though assymetrical. The brace height is a little over 7 inches. Note how narrow the limbs are at the deflexed sections. I will post pictures of the bow drawn once it is fully dried after the sinew wrapping.

Adam

[scemdonmez]

Adam:

Snew wraping is typical for Scythian bow? Very good looking bow.

Cem

[Dusan]

Yes, looks very good, Adam.

[Orda Khan]

Entire suits of scale armor have been found.

I'd suggest armour of this sort would be far more likely to be the possession of upper class elite few, rather than the common many, just as in later mediaeval armies. The common soldier would be more likely protected by toughened leather or any suitable item that he could acquire on the battlefield. Some Scythian shields were simple wood and leather constructions.

[Adam Karpowicz]

Thanks. Yes the bows were wrapped twice in sinew. I found it improved stability (torsional resistance) which is quite important for a bow so narrow in the limbs.

Adam

[Kviljo]

Very cool!!

The bow is made with exact measurements from the documented original? - and is having most of the bend in the narrow deflexed sections? Normally any narrow section should bend less than the rest of the bow. Could there be any technical relation between the deflexing and them being able to take all the bend, despite how narrow these sections are? If they really were bending like that, there must be an interesting reason for it Any thoughts on that?

Does the original show how thick the horn is along the bows length?

Can't wait for more pictures!

[Adam Karpowicz]

Yes, the bow's dimensions follow the measurements by Stephen in his drawing. But most of the bend does not happen in the deflexed section. The bow flexes within about 2/3 of its length: the grip plus the deflexed sections up to about the mid limb. There is very little flexing in the outer recurved halfs of limbs and in the tips. It is nor absolutely certain if all such bows behaved like that, because some of them seem to have more string follow in the outer limbs too, indicating stress there as well. Nevertheless, the outer half of limb does not move much if at all in this bow. Since the bow bends mostly in the central parts, which are about the same thickness, and really quite thick by the standard of the hornbows, one can expect fairly good efficiency. I am not at the stage I can test for performance as yet to find out.

I tried to follow the thickness of horn as in the drawings, but bear in mind small differences will not show much.

Adam

[redhawk]

Say never no!
Adam, I guess your great work has convinced me, that the Subeixi- bow is a working bow.
I know more than any other how delicious it is to make such a complex bow.

Do you really want it to draw it to 28"?
I told you, that about 90% of all the arrow- findings I ?ve examined in Siberia are in the 26"- range. I?m afraid of over- stressing this bow.

You stated that the grip- section is bending. So, is the bow done with a spliced- in- handle, as it is posted in Stephen?s recordings?

Michael

[Adam Karpowicz]

According to Stephen, the arrows were up to 81cm long (32"). I estimated other arrows on a different picture to be from 28" to 30". From that I assume the bows could be drawn from 28 to 32". Bear in mind this is an eastern Scythian bow of the longer kind. The length betw the nocks is 131cm (almost 52"). For a hornbow of such length the draw length is greater and 30" should be no problem. I have already pulled the bow to 28", but I hesitate to go farther, at least for now. The limbs are spliced to the grip, so the bow flexes through the splice.

Adam