Turkish tirkesh war arrow replicas

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:57 pm

I don't see the point. If you do everything right there is very little to none room between the base of the shaft and arrowhead shoulder.

lukostrelec · Post by **lukostrelec** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:33 pm

Daniel wrote:I don't see the point. If you do everything right there is very little to none room between the base of the shaft and arrowhead shoulder.

that's the point

I would leave a small place between the end of the shaft and the neck of the rap bodkin which will be then filled with "copper serving"

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:50 pm

Ok, try it a see how it works

lukostrelec · Post by **lukostrelec** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:41 pm

Daniel wrote:Ok, try it a see how it works

I know, I know

that it is quite stupid idea, but I do like to inovate

Recently I have made a bundle of barreled arrows according to many advices, yours included. I have used rap bodkins made by very talented young slovak smith Simon Abel http://www.abeland.sk/kovac/index.html. I have instructed him in minute detail and I have passed to him great czech article devoted to this topic by Michal Sodja.

The first sample of these points have not been hardened. During slovak Tournament of Tournaments in Pacov http://www.lukobranie.6f.sk/index.html I have missed some of the 3D targets in rocky pine-tree woods and hit some of the rocks. The points bent on the neck of the bodkin, but remained intact, I have just bent them back to the straight direction

However what was very pleasant surprise was the fact that the thin part of the arrow towards the point remained totally intact! although being hardly 5mm thick in the place when touching the neck of the bodkin.

before final finish - freshly served with elk sinew:

finished, after tournament but without damage:

(Yes, I know, the serving is so rude and primitive, please have a patience, I am a greenhorn yet

).

finished, after tournament but little damaged from the hits onto the rocks:

(I was lucky enough that czech agaşi Michal Sodja has finally made for me the best bodkins in the world

so the next arrows will be more durable....)

It could be easily seen that the shaft suffered from damage in the very end place despite the careful sinew serving there. So this is the reason of my idea to supply the washer with copper line - just a try

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:48 pm

I get it now: with forged points it is very difficult to make nice, clear 90 degree angle between the shoulder and the tang. Machined points are very uniform so no problem there. Anyway, the bodkin made by Simon seems to be very long, can you tell us why? And how much does it weight? Regarding serving - for neat look try not to overlap sinew. Can we see the whole arrow?

lukostrelec · Post by **lukostrelec** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:45 pm

Well, the bodkin has its pyramid needle 7 cm long. Its weight is about 150 grains.
I have trimmed the cedar and pine shafts symmetrically from 11/32 to about 4-5mm at the ends:
5mm<----1/3 of the length----><----11/32 along the 1/3 of the length----><----1/3 of the length---->5mm.
Finally I have made final more trimming on both ends (gradually of course) corresponding with the length of the needle, thus acquiring symmetrical shaft.
My reasoning was that the longer the needle the better stability and the directness of the point-area of the arrow. For this reason I have pondered about even longer needle, however I have chosen 7cm for "my" smith Simon to be comfortable during the startup.
The serving is rude because I have processed the sinew filaments quite primitive with just the nails of my fingers, that is why they were not perfectly flat when gluing them onto the shaft. Moreover, every new filament have been overlapped so to prevent its loosing.
Here are the arrows, they are of slightly different size because of the input parameters: spine, weight, bodkin weight.

And here are the nocks. I have started first with bakkam, but it is quite time-consuming still for me. So I have used some hybrid

I have cut small pieces from my damaged bamboo arrows, I made a conical whole in it and matching cone raze on the shaft leaving small flat surface of the width of the bowstring. I glued it like that together, then I served it with sinew and finally made a cut in it just towards the flat end of the shaft. So I have achieved a bowstring to give its force mainly to the shaft itself. Still primitive look but the arrows fly very well and consistent within the bundle.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:51 pm

Luko; Before attaching the points, weigh both the points and the arrow. Match the lightest arrow with the heaviest point. A little can be ground off the point to balance the entire arrow. A small nail can be inserted under the nock if the arrow is too light. One gram. This also helps for center of balance. Shafts weight matched to begin with result in the best final matching.

Sinew can be compacted when it is 90 percent dry and also polished by rolling on a very hard surface or by burnishing. Neck sinew makes the best lashings.

For the reason that your sinew at the points wears hard, Mughal arrows are superior with metal ferules instead of sinew. Fine arrows used on targets and shot many times just take too much wear at the points.

There is every variation on tempering. Each part of a point can be different.

M??a · Post by **M??a** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:52 pm

Daniel wrote:I get it now: with forged points it is very difficult to make nice, clear 90 degree angle between the shoulder and the tang. Machined points are very uniform so no problem there. Anyway, the bodkin made by Simon seems to be very long, can you tell us why? And how much does it weight? Regarding serving - for neat look try not to overlap sinew. Can we see the whole arrow?

90?isńt good idea. Arrowpoint with sharp perpendiculary shape between base and tang easy break (or bent, when steel is too soft).

lukostrelec · Post by **lukostrelec** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:31 am

M??a wrote:
Daniel wrote:I get it now: with forged points it is very difficult to make nice, clear 90 degree angle between the shoulder and the tang. Machined points are very uniform so no problem there. Anyway, the bodkin made by Simon seems to be very long, can you tell us why? And how much does it weight? Regarding serving - for neat look try not to overlap sinew. Can we see the whole arrow?
90?isńt good idea. Arrowpoint with sharp perpendiculary shape between base and tang easy break (or bent, when steel is too soft).

Yes, exactly as we have discussed together when we met last time, M??o. That is why I have instructed Simon very clearly to be careful especially for this part. I have thought, however, that sinew would be enough to protect the touching parts of the shaft and the neck of the bodkin. It was not.
For the next time I am preparing some copper/aluminium plates from old, unusable, coins

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:02 am

Some of the old points I have are almost conical in the transition between the point and the tang. They relied on the compression of the sinew drying to stop the point from being forced back into the wood or reed. I think this shape was to avoid the problem of a sharp angle and the consequent risk of breaking.