Making a Magyar bow

Botondbow · Post by **Botondbow** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:52 pm

Zoran Pavlovic wrote:Peter,
If weather conditions in area are not so ideal, and there are four seasons don't you think that entire bow should be covered whether by rawhide or birch bark? Take a look at Chronica Picta and you'll see that bows are represented without horn exposed. It was case in whole area as i came to know. This is what i had in my mind while i was reading your mention about humidity.
Cheers out!

Zoran,
You're right but it may give only a partial solution.
If I covered my bows with eg. birch bark it would surely provide better protection and less performance degree for a bow; however the heavy and thick air is still not ideal for arrow flight!

Again, I'm not a flight archer but in my reading, each four variables has the same importance!
It means an experienced flight archer with an effective bow and a precisely designed arrow can not achive a good distance if the teritory conditions (terrain, wind, humidity, temperature, etc...) are not ideal.

Maybe Bede or other experienced flight archers can confirm or argue with this statement!

Zoran Pavlovic · Post by **Zoran Pavlovic** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:58 pm

Peter,
Sorry cause i didn't take into consideration flight archery since i considered your bow as historical warbow /hunting bow so i did mean about its efficiency in these aspects of life.
Greets!

Botondbow wrote:
Zoran Pavlovic wrote:Peter,
If weather conditions in area are not so ideal, and there are four seasons don't you think that entire bow should be covered whether by rawhide or birch bark? Take a look at Chronica Picta and you'll see that bows are represented without horn exposed. It was case in whole area as i came to know. This is what i had in my mind while i was reading your mention about humidity.
Cheers out!
Zoran,
You're right but it may give only a partial solution.
If I covered my bows with eg. birch bark it would surely provide better protection and less performance degree for a bow; however the heavy and thick air is still not ideal for arrow flight!

Again, I'm not a flight archer but in my reading, each four variables has the same importance!
It means an experienced flight archer with an effective bow and a precisely designed arrow can not achive a good distance if the teritory conditions (terrain, wind, humidity, temperature, etc...) are not ideal.

Maybe Bede or other experienced flight archers can confirm or argue with this statement!

Fenris · Post by **Fenris** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:31 pm

First of all: This is great work that you show over here and I am very thankful that you share the results!
Since I am also working on a somewhat similar design I took some of your generously published data to maybe give an indication for an answer that was posted in this thread before. The question showed up on page 8 an as far as I saw altough the data was there nobody further discussed it. It was all about the benefit of a more reflexed bow. Therefore I believe you made two similar bows (you gave the pictures) while one was with far more reflex. The question was now whether there is a difference in cast. Peter please correct me if I am wrong. but I identified the bows as B 4 and B5 of your test. Since the data over here http://www.botondbow.com/bow-and-arrow-test---2011 is well provided I had nothing more to do than putting the measured speed and the gr/lbs together in one spreadsheet (see attachment).
The regressions follow no certain model. I just chose what fit best. For B 4 the coefficient of determination is very high, nearly one, indicating that all testing was done with high precision. For B 5 it is less but still good. Despite the regressions I see the data points in one narrow scatter plot between 7 and 11 gr/lbs. The data above that should maybe not be taken into account since there are too few data points in too mich distance. Also I would expect all kind of bows to be quite equal from a gr/lbs ratio above maybe 14.
I would like to leave it open for discussion but for me it seems that despite maybe other design factors the additional reflex did not add too much cast to bow B 4. If this would be the case it is for me an indication that it may not be necessary to add much reflex/setback to a magyar style bow to have a good cast. Maybe others can comment on this.
Again great work Peter. Please correct me if I mixed up data (I can also send you the raw file)

With best regards

Kevin

Botondbow · Post by **Botondbow** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:29 am

Kevin,

Great to hear that you're working on a similar project! Your calculations as well as the final conclusion were quite close to mine with a slight difference.
One of the main purpose of this test was whether a relatively big grip angle can give better performance and efficiency for a bow?

In order to get an answer I compered test results of B-3 with B-4 (instead of your evaluated B-4 and B-5). Both two bows have the same 57 lb draw weight, however B-3 has 180? grip-angle, meanwhile B-4 has 150?. In the table below the arrow speeds (f/s) are highlighted in yellow meanwhile the distance is white.

As you can see significant advantages were not identified, moreover in some cases results of the less grip-angle bow were better. This evaluation can be true for light bows but may not in war bow category.
Comparison of only two bows should never give an objective answer that is why I still continue the big grip-angle bow study.

Kevin, you did a good job thanks for sharing your calculation!

Feather · Post by **Feather** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:27 am

Hi Kevin

My name Jonathan. Seems to me from your graph that the bow with more reflex does perform better with arrow weights between 10gpp and 14gpp. This may just be just be due to a limited number of data points but that kind of makes sense to me. I don't know if there are any FD curves but it would seem that the more reflexed bow stored a greater amount of energy which may make it somewhat more efficient with heavier arrows.

J

Pat Menzies · Post by **Pat Menzies** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:53 pm

Definitely lots of extreme underdrawing in most of those shots although one bow in particular looks very soft to draw and overbuilt for the apparent draw weight.
Not sure about all the screaming and yelling with the guy doing his big chief act.

Just shoot the bow and let it do the talking.

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:29 pm

Right it always seems like only few people draw bows of 80+.. be that as it may, you can probably not compete in flightshooting with this "guy"

Pat Menzies · Post by **Pat Menzies** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:58 pm

Sure I could, and quietly too.

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:47 pm

OK, thats great

http://kurultaj.hu/2012/08/monus-jozsef ... jon-fotok/

Pat Menzies · Post by **Pat Menzies** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:04 am

I know, I know. The old bend the rules fiberglass bow, just like the Khan himself used.

Let's keep it old school.