String loop knots

pcoutin · Post by **pcoutin** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:08 am

I wonder what knot this is? And I'd like to know more about what kinds of knots were used for single loop bowstrings - if you only had a single cord, what knot would you use to make a loop? (maybe besides bowline or timber hitch)

Was there a single loop Korean bowstring knot? It seemed to be very complicated, though

thank you

A.Haydar · Post by **A.Haydar** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:26 am

I have knot illustration I got somewhere on the net, don't remember the source though.. one of them is single loop..

pcoutin · Post by **pcoutin** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:39 am

Thanks, that's an interesting knot, good reference

Maybe overhand knot on a bight has been used as string loops?

A.Haydar · Post by **A.Haydar** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:52 pm

pcoutin wrote:Thanks, that's an interesting knot, good reference

Maybe overhand knot on a bight has been used as string loops?

yes, the left is single cord/string knot, the right one use as string loops..

mikekeswick · Post by **mikekeswick** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:04 pm

pcoutin wrote:Thanks, that's an interesting knot, good reference

Maybe overhand knot on a bight has been used as string loops?

An overhand on the bight would be next to impossible to untie after it's been loaded. String loop knots need to be releasable.

pcoutin · Post by **pcoutin** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:58 am

mikekeswick wrote:
pcoutin wrote:Thanks, that's an interesting knot, good reference

Maybe overhand knot on a bight has been used as string loops?
An overhand on the bight would be next to impossible to untie after it's been loaded. String loop knots need to be releasable.

How about figure of 8 on the bight? (Still pretty hard to untie I thought)
Bowline vs. that knot on the left?
A simple (not hangman's) noose, then a turkish loop with another cord on the noose itself to make a loop? Would the noose closing cause any problems with the turkish double loop? Wonder if it'd make a weak point on the string more than a different loop. Or maybe less. Noose (with fig. of 8 knot?) + turkish double loop seems like it might be the way...
Thanks for replying

mikekeswick · Post by **mikekeswick** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:55 pm

I do a lot of rock climbing and figure of eights are a total nightmare to untie after a fall! Bowlines are what climbers generally use if they are going to be falling lots. I haven't looked at them very closely but I presume the commonly used knots for strings loops are used because they are releasable but also suitable for non-modern material cord.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:47 am

I used the illustrated loop on a gut string on a heavy bow. You only untie one of these knots to readjust the string length when it has stretched. With gut, you have to wet the knot to soften it enough to untie it and you need some sort of fid to get between the loops of string. I know untying fids were sometimes part of the equipment of and archer and became a decorative item of clothing like knives. Even in Heian Japan they are mentioned in the literature. In Jin documents they are mislabelled as bleeding spikes to kill game.

Nomads in general were familiar with braiding and plaiting leather from textile threads and laces. Knots were a regular part of life for tying packs to horses, horse to posts or horse lines, and pieces of equipment together. I think that the knot on the old Mongol bow was a form of bowline knot from looking at the photograph. The knot more generally used had a special feature in that one loop of the knot could be loosened to independently lengthen of shorten the end loop without disturbing the distance between to two knows (i.e. the core length of the string).

Ian Robertson · Post by **Ian Robertson** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:25 pm

Robert Elmer (who collaborated with Nabih Amin Faris on a translation of "Arab Archery") was interested in knots used to make asiatic bowstrings, in particular what he called the "Bowyers Knot" (also the "Asiatic Bowstring Knot"). This knot was used in composite bowstrings to join loops made of separate (usually tougher) material to an "endless loop" skein that forms its main body. Elmer's Bowyers Knot is knot "2", illustrated above in A Hayder's post.

In "Target Archery" (Knopf 1946), Elmer says "This wonderful knot is used on bowstrings over the whole length and breadth of Asia, but strangely enough, though it is adaptable for many purposes that have no relation to archery, I have never met a person who uses cordage professionally who knew it."

Target Archery includes a fairly long discussion of the merits of the knot, and of composite bowstrings in general. Arab Archery provides a few photos, and a shorter discussion in the appendix, where it is suggested that the Bowyers Knot is probably the knot described in the manuscript as "Khurasanian".

I used to use this knot back in the 70s & 80s, when making tackle for trying to learn to shoot with an Asian thumblock. My equipment was generally terrible (like my shooting!), but my knots never slipped.

fusizoli · Post by **fusizoli** » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:09 pm

We had a long talk about this. Try to find that topic ;)
The title was Bow string knots or something like that.

fusizoli · Post by **fusizoli** » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:12 pm

We had a long talk about this. Try to find that topic ;)
The title was Bow string knots or something like that

...Here it is
http://atarn.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t ... tring+knot

pcoutin · Post by **pcoutin** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:26 am

Thanks for the link. I was reading it and was wondering, what is a tunc?

A.Haydar · Post by **A.Haydar** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:35 am

pcoutin wrote:Thanks for the link. I was reading it and was wondering, what is a tunc?

tunc/tundj is the separate loop (usually made from sinew) that use in the right knot in the illustration above.. cmiiw