Turkish Mounted Archers

Jos?Dom · Post by **Jos?Dom** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:40 pm

It's fascinating that we have the chance to relive this old art. Thank you for sharing.

Jos

Orda Khan · Post by **Orda Khan** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:16 am

Thanks for the information, Murat. My initial reply mentioned the 'lively' horses and just one look at them showed they were something special. I was also impressed by the pace - fast and furious! Brilliant!!
I would imagine Qabak is very difficult and disorientating, aiming upwards while travelling at speed. How tall is the pole?

Jos?Dom · Post by **Jos?Dom** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:42 pm

I imagine qabak as shooting at popinjay from a full speed horse. It might be dangerous for spectators too.

Orda Khan · Post by **Orda Khan** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:13 am

I don't know if blunts are used but they would eliminate some danger to spectators.

Murat ?zveri · Post by **Murat ?zveri** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:35 pm

Orda Khan,

In most scripts and articles the length of the pole has been given as "a mast", "three mast-long", "a pole reaching the sky" or "minimum 20 metres". The dimensions of the field is different too. There is a historical report about the discussion of Istanbuli and Egyptian (an Ottoman province at that time) mounted archers about that issue. Anyway, the play ground was about 276-350 m. Since cirit is played on a 140-160 m field, it's absolutely certain that the archers shot at full gallop and needed that space to control his horse after the shot.

We do not know whether blunts and/or flu flu's were used. But probably the arrow flight was slowed down by using the so-called "ibrish" arrows, the Turkish type flu flu, with a single full length feather wrapped around the rear of the shaft. However, in the miniatures that can not be recognised.

I doubt if low-weight bows were shot, because kabak game was a demonstration of skill first of all, and drawing/shooting heavy bows was a part of this concept. It means, the arrows would have been dangerous for the spectators too. Of course, one of the goals of such a long playground may be the safety of spectators.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:47 pm

Murat,
There are some Safavid paintings of qabaq (kabak) shooting. Penetrating the target seems to have been the purpose. Using abrish arrows would be one way to protect spectators. The other would be to have the spectators only on one side of the course.

I think the arrows might have been quite heavy, which would also limit their flight, but allow them to strike a metal target with force. However, with the original gourd as the target, light arrows as you have suggested would be a good idea. Turkish painters show the arrows that missed sticking vertically in the ground.

Taybugha gives a clear description of gourd shooting and there is no doubt that it was done at full gallop as you indicate.

temren · Post by **temren** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:47 am

Hi All,

I had a talk with Hilmi Aric. He wanted me to post the below explanation regarding the treatment of their horses:

Cirit horses perform rapid and rough manouvers. In order to stop or to achieve a controllable speeds, the riders need to haul on the mouths of their horses. Even while driving the horse forward, this method is used to give the horse a sense of balance. Horses run by constantly rushing forward, using the pushing force of their hind legs. The rider in the meantime, keeps the reins under constant pressure, a sort of contra-force against the hind legs. After a while, this pressure is taken into account by the horse when it assumes its own centre of gravity. Releasing this pressure on a slight slope would cause the horse to trip and fall. This also presents the greatest risk while performing mounted archery on a cirit horse, since the reins are released while shooting.

Hope this helps,

Adnan...