new method for speed shooting during HA

[jak]

Hi

not bad...with training you can go faster
you reload on the upper side of the nock as some hungarian do with thumb release....for me it is faster to reload on the lower side of the nock because arrows are heads down

normally I will do my video this WE

[jak]

Hi

I put a video on my blog EPONARC showing "my" technic and showing 13 arrows shots without quiver and with thumb release:
6 arrows in bowhand with my technic and 6 arrows in my drawhand with shower technic and one ready to shot

see at post"jak13arrows" in http://jakpradere.blogspot.com/

[Lord Ruthven]

Verry impressive! Thanks for sharing.
It seems somewhat different than "mine". I see you too have to arrange the arrows in order not to tangle them while reloading.
Isn't the bow unsecure while you move your fingers to make way for the arrow? Especialy while riding ?
The idea to reload on the lower side of the nock is quite interesting and may be faster. I'll try it.

I'll post a detailed slow reloading soon.

Thanks again

[jak]

Hi lord
of course every body (and all around the world) have to arrange arrows before reloading

I use this technic while riding:you can see on my blog the video" korean and hungarian..during echoa 2009
it is not insecure at all

during "Hasting battle " in 1066 when french normand have invaded england with william the conqueror we can see that french archer(and HA archer) hold the arrows with point up so "my" technic is at least 1000 years old, so it is secure(the french win the battle!!!)

[Lord Ruthven]

I guess you missunderstood me. In "my" way, the arrow has to open just 3 fingers of the bowhand while reloading, so thumb and forefinger always hold the bow. In your way I see it has to open all 4 fingers and move the thumb. Isn't the bow insecure at that very moment, while you move the arrow to nock it ?
As for the arrangmet of the arrow - in the Kassai way (and I believe in Novotni's way too) for mediteranian draw the arrows are arranged only by heigth (i.e. first drawn arrow - higher, next - a bit lower, etc.). Since you pull them completetly out of your bowhand before nocking them, there's no need to arrange them otherwise - you can't tangle them. As for "my" and your approach, since you only rotate them, while reloading, they must be arranged in order not to tangle with each other. In this way the first arrow must be to extreme right, not crossing the seccond, which is left of the first, but right to the third, not crossing any of them, etc.
That's what I really meant.

Best Regards
Alexander

[Urwis]

what I have come to:

Hi!
It seems that whot you are doing is very similar to the method I'm working on, please take a look:
http://www.lucznictwokonne.pl/traktat/r ... misia.html
(there are only photos at the moment, the site is still under developement. Text is in Polish but the pics should be clear enough, I hope).

As you can find there are 2 differences:
1) I'm keeping the arrows under middle finger only. This allows for a firm grip on the handle of the bow with thumb, ring and small fingers, which I like.
Also, arrows are resting on the knuckle of the ring finger and they are spreading fan-shape 'all by themself', there is no need to arrange them.
It's possible to take 3-4 arrows from a quiver, put them quickly under the middle finger and start shooting immediately, arrows will arrange themself.
You can also, if you have a moment without any targets in sight stop shooting, add some more arrows from the quiver and continue.
(I hoope I made this clear, sorry form my limited english)

2) I'm nocking arrows on the string UNDER the nockpoint.
Here you can find two methods of quick nocking I'm using (with pics and short movies, this part of site is ready):

something I found by myself (and what is called in Poland 'the Bearway' :
http://www.lucznictwokonne.pl/traktat/r ... nie2p.html

and 'historical' method based on 'arab archery/saracen archery' (together with 'chinese' variant Stephen Selby shown me)
http://www.lucznictwokonne.pl/traktat/r ... nie3p.html

Of course keeping arrows under middle finger is limited to about 4 + 1 on the string.
Currently im experimenting with 11+1 version:
4 arrows under small, ring and middle fingers (exactly 'your style')
3 more arrows under ring and middle
4 more under middle
1 nocked on the string
It is possible to do, but I have to work a lot more before I will make my movements fast and sure.
Tucking all these arrows under fingers of course takes a long time, comparing to the first variant.

Best Regards,
Michal

[Urwis]

of course every body (and all around the world) have to arrange arrows before reloading

Dear Jak (hallo! we met during Eocha)

I believe this is not so.
Of course, if a method involve tucking a lot (let say 8, 10 or 12) arrows under different fingers then, YES, certainly you have to arrange them.
But there are difrent ways (or Bearways )

I have 2 methods in which arranging is not necessary.
One I described in a previous post: 3-4 arrows under middle finger.
The only thing you have to do is take 3-4 arrows from the quiver, keeping them under right thumb. You have to get them flat in your hand, NOT in bundle, but one laying next to the other.
This is easy with flat, open-type quiver (and not so easy with tube type).
Then you open the middle finger of your left hand, with right hand place the arrows under it (still laying flat one along the other) and close the finger. Arrows will 'arrange themself' as described before.
It really works - of course if you do not pull the arrows from the quiver correctly, but take them in bundle, then they criss-cross one another and a BIG problem occurs...

The second method is different:
you take a bundle of arrows under middle and ring finger (maximum about 10pcs is possible, depending on the size of hand and diameter of shafts). Then you pull your arrow from the bundle by the nock, in a manner a bit similar to Kassai style.
Of course it's impossible to use broadheads - only target points or similar,
but no arranging of arrows is necessary - you grab several arrows from the quiver and tuck them in your left hand.

Here some photos:
http://www.lucznictwokonne.pl/traktat/r ... iazki.html
This page is also under construction and show only what we call "rubber trick" with bundle of 16-18 arrows tied with a piece of rubber band and special knot.
But you can do the same without band, only with smaller number of arrows (more pictures will be inserted later).

Regards,
Michal

[Alan Flashing]

Very interesting, thank you for posting the photo links.
Alan

[Lord Ruthven]

Urwis, very interesting! Thank you for posting!
I am nocking under the nock point too, but what I use is something in between the Bearway method and the saracene - I'm holding the arrow between my forefinger and middle finger, as in the saracene way, but I'm guiding the arrow on the string with the thumb as in the Bearway.
There is just one problem - one has to be quick but not hasty. Otherwise the thumb may move under the pressure of the string and the nock may miss the string.

[jak]

Hi urwis

glad to ear from you......thanks for your post

I have try your way to hold arrows :it is very good

to knock the arrow (bearing) we do more or less the same thing

when I hold the arrow between first finger and middle one(as you do) I

continue with sassanid release and not with the thumb

I have some ECHOA pics of you

best jak

[Urwis]

Hi again!
I added some more photos on my page, please take a look:

http://www.lucznictwokonne.pl/traktat/r ... misia.html

This is with 10 arrows (3+3+3 in the hand and 1 on the string, not included in the photo)
The 12 arrows version is exactly like this but more difficult for the fingers, with 3+4+4 and 1 on the string.

Best Regards!
Michal