The Scythian-type bows from Yanghai (Shanshan)

[Stephen Selby]

At some point I promised someone that I'd post my field drawings of the Yanghai Scythian-type bows. Now you can get them here:

http://www.atarn.org/chinese/Yanghai/yanghai.htm

[Patrick Menzies]

You've been sitting on this gold mine of info while the bowmakers on here speculated about them? Grrrrr. :wink:

[JJ]

Wondeful! Thanks a lot. That brings us a lot nearer to the reconstruction of the scythian type composite.

Can you add some informations on the site where the bows were found, dating and so on(Couldn?t find this using the search function...)?

I guess the structure of the bow shows that the people who made them did not yet fully understand the qualities and the best placement of the horn in a bow!

The same seems to be true of the earlier Angular composites, which are to my knowledge the oldest known horn/wood/ sinew composites. The bows of the later hunnic type show an improved knowledge of the qualities of the materials, as they are constructed the way we are used to now (sinew on the back, horn only on the belly).

JJ

[Redhorse]

Thank you.
I have look at the grip, was the bow hold on the upper part of handle?
That would make it lean forward and it makes sense for me. Not as in this picture http://www.salukibow.com/images/HORNBOWSCYTHIAN32.jpg

[Orda Khan]

On the other hand, they could probably be more accurately described as 'horn bows' than later types since the parts seem attached to a horn core. Fascinating construction.

[Stephen Selby]

On the location and dating, if you look through my untidy scribbles on the drawings, you will see the information. There is GPS data that you can look up on Google Maps. Yanghai is about 50 Km outside Turpan and lies at 90 metres below sea level.

The date of the burials where we got these bows and some similar ones is reckoned at about 700BCE. There were utility knives but no other bladed weapons. All males were buried with these bows (but no females). Many burials contained complete gorytoi and arrows (exactly as drawn by Bede elsewhere.)

All females were buried with equipment relating to weaving or personal care. One burial contained shamanistic objects; but included items that could be associated with bow construction - an adze and a pot of what seems to be glue.

Later burials at Yanghai contained bows similar to the Xiongnu model as well as East Chinese composite bows.

[Andrew Hall]

Thanks for posting the drawings. A very interesting construction. I suspect that many ATARNites will be considering building one of these bows.

Yanghai may be a very important site in both the quality of preservation and range of types of bows (I am assuming the later bows are as well preserved as the earlier ones). It could have important evidence on the development of the composite bow. Other sites with good preservation such as Subeshi and Niya are more limited in time periods and hence bow types.

I am not familiar with the term "East Chinese composite". What type is this?

Andrew

[Stephen Selby]

Welcome to try to reproduce it. I think it's the 'bow from Hell' in terms of difficulty of construction.

I am not familiar with the term "East Chinese composite". What type is this?

That's my own term. It refers to those surviving bows from the Warring States Period (c. 500-200BCE) which are clearly composite; but the use of horn is not clear. Typical examples are those recorded from the tomb of the Marquis of Zeng.

[redhawk]

...............that?s more than hell to reconstruct such a bow... if you don?t understand the benchmark for to tiller them, you?ll be lost.........so have a look at my asymmetrical bow posting here and in the Paleoplanet.
Before making such a bow as a hornbow, try the asymmetry with an easy to do lightweighted selfbow.................
If some help is needed, I?ll be there.

Michael

[Bede]

Stephen,
Are you talking about the same style as the earless laminated bows from Chu?

[Patrick Menzies]

I can't help noticing that the deflexed limb sections appear considerably narrower than the outer limb sections. Both visually in the picture of the entire bows and according to the given measurements.
If that area was the area of the most bending and stress you would think it would be wider or at least as wide as the rest of the limb.

[Stephen Selby]

Re. previous two posts:

Bede: 'Yes'.

Patrick: A problematic issue with these bows is that they appear seriously unstable. The strongly triangular cross-section may have been the solution. (Comment from Adam?) With the possible exception of the work that Adam has been doing, I have never seen a reproduction Scythian-style bow that looked close to my drawings.

If anyone is passing through Hong Kong, they are welcome to come and handle an original. (Seriously damaged; but that's a good thing in this instance.)

[Redhorse]

Well your waiting may be over
Were is the splice in the handle? Is there more splice in the limbs, tips?
Is the core horn made of several pieces or one in every limb?

[Adam Karpowicz]

Yes, the bending (deflexed) sections are a problem (this is why I have so much trouble tillering the replica).

Fortunately, the stiffest component of the sandwich - the core - is relatively flat, so the limbs can be coaxed to behave, especially with the deflex. I have seen a "primitive" bow made in Africa with similar situation, but it was permanetly deflexed.

The bow is not that hard to make, as long as slats cut from ibex horn are the base for the core. Then the wood sections of core are patched-on at both sides of horn as needed.

Adam

[Redhorse]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... %93_03.jpg
Siberian Ibex can be hard to find