Gengis Khan Exhibit-Houston

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:41 pm

New exhibit opening in Houston, Texas. 200 items of the era. Two bows, nine arrows, one quiver.

http://www.hmns.org/exhibits/special_ex ... gh.asp?r=1

If you can enlarge the picture of the arrows one can see on four or five arrows that the cock feather is at 90 degrees to the nock. However,the fletches go all the way to the nocks like a Turkish arrow. To me this would suggest a thumb release because of little space to hold the arrow for another release.

The upper bow is like other Mongol bows known, such as Stephen's. The lower bow however has much more bent recurves though the rest is as before. Very stout, thick limbs. The upper bow has been more "shot in".

Cost to see the exhibit is $22. They are very proud of the material. Bet they do not allow photography. Museum going is getting more like theatre every day.

Andrew Hall · Post by **Andrew Hall** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:35 am

Jack, very interesting.

The lower bow looks remarkably like the Omnogov bow, although heavier (Omnogov is about 1/2" thick mid limb). Do you think it has horn inserts at the tips?

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:16 pm

Any idea where the exhibits come from? The website doesn't seem to say...

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:26 pm

Andrew; We are so lucky that they chose the bows and arrows to show. Those do indeed look like horn inserts in the tips. Or on the other hand maybe they are wood (or bone?) overlays. Very interesting. The display is not yet open. I will go and check these things out when it does. Maybe make drawings.

Stephen; There is more to the site. Here is the page with the info.

http://www.hmns.org/exhibits/special_ex ... an.asp?r=1

Someone sent me a three page short essay by Don Lessem, exhibit organizer; The New Genghis Khan.

Ashbow · Post by **Ashbow** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:32 pm

Jack, thank you for the link.

What strikes me is the very low angle between ears and limbs of the upper bow.
I think such configuration would easily lend itself for the use of a core without need of splicing separate ears. I wonder how a braced profile of the bow would look like.
Also the way the whole bow is covered with birch bark is quite interesting.

The shaft of the top arrow with a large broad head looks considerably thicker than rest of the arrows below.

Andrew Hall · Post by **Andrew Hall** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:13 pm

Jack, I look forward to your comments when you have examined them.

Ashbow, the earlier Hunnic bows managed much greater limb-siyah angles than the upper bow without needing splicing. (They appear to have thinned the core and scarfed on a reinforcing layer after bending, sandwiching the siyah between a pair of bone plates). These bone siyah plates gradually fell out of use during the latter half of the first millennium, probably associated with the introduction of spliced-in siyahs (based on extremely limited evidence).

Covering the complete bow in birch-bark was probably quite common.

With its low reflex and limb/siyah angle, the upper bow looks like it would stack quite badly and not store much energy. Does anyone know if a lower-stress design like this could be made without horn?

The arrows may be from several sets, most seem too long to fit in the quiver.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:17 pm

Jack,
Regarding the arrows do yo mean that the cock feather is in line with the slot of the nock like a Turkish arrow?

The bottom bow looks a lot like what I would imagine the bow in "Khubilai Khan Hunting" would look like unstrung if it were related to the much later Moghul bows.

Are the white tips bitch bark covered or bone?

The quiver looks like an eighth or ninth century Turkish one from Tuva. No doubt they were still used since Stephen found a similar one. The Tuvan quiver had a set of broad heads with whistles for hunting. Perhaps this is a hunting quiver too.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:53 pm

Bede; I made a small edit to clarify. 4 Cock fletches are at 90 degrees to the string.

Some more about the arrows. If you could imagine a Mongol army always in need of ammunition. A soldier could hardly make all his own arrows. Nor would it be easy to return those to the shooter. Rather, arrow makers might have provided masses of arrows, those arrows distributed to the archers and added to original and recovered ones. Voila- a quiver full of mixed up arrows.

Any collection of arrowpoints of the era has the same random assortment of points. I have seen a collection taken from a single battle site in Russia in which the points are random.

It would be most helpful to have a site report about these finds. Forever speculating!

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:33 am

Thank you Jack for link ! Thaths , amazing ! In the end somthing diferent than todays mongolian touristic bows . I hear about similar mongolian bow in Japanese musem. Can anybody post picture from this bow ?

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:45 am

Jack,
Do you mean like this drawing?

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:32 pm

Bede; Yes. Arrows 3 & 4 and 8 & 9 from the top appear to make a set, would fit the quiver and look to be as I describe above.

But wait till I can go to the exhibit for further clarification. -j-

Adam Karpowicz · Post by **Adam Karpowicz** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:49 pm

Jack, please make sure to measure (or rather estimate) the length and the thickness of the bows as well. I am very interested in the top bow.

Adam

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:22 pm

Thanks Jack.
Some of the feathers look spiralled in the photo. Is that real or are the shafts damaged and twisted?

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:50 pm

Hi Jack and U2,

I have seen this exibition last year in the castle of Schallaburg in Lower-Austria. Did some pictures, but can?t find them ( maybe - sorry - i canceled). So the nocking was 90? the other way like Bede discribed (for three feathers-fletching).
I only have the comparison with Kyudo, where one feather is the leading-feather called "Hashi Riba". It?s directed to the sky, which means it?s parallel to the string and point vertical upwards. Think in Asien-archery most properties are related.
The exhibition was very interesting, but i have doubt if the equipement is origin of the time of Ghengis Khan. The artefacts are old and one bow is delaminated a little bit, but..........

I will search for the pictures, hope to find them.

Peter

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:19 pm

Guys, as time goes by,

the exibition was 2006! You can have a look at the homepage of Schallaburg, in case of this exhibition on http://www.schallaburg.at/ausstellungen/rueckblick , but there are unfortunately no pictures.

Stephen: this exhibition is done a cooperation between Germany (Bonn + Munich) and Austria (Ministry of culture) because of the 800 years annual of the establishment of "Dschingis Khans" empire.

Peter