Interesting Asiatic Bows in Russian Collections

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:58 pm

Fue days i search in russians sites , an found many interesting things. For example in Ukraina Tchernigovsk Museum is exibition "Kiyevskaja Rus" vith this Tatars loks like bow ston arowheads and bone thumbrings(?)

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:26 pm

reconstruction Mongol archers belt.

birchbark "koltchan" from Cherson rayon (1400) archeological research

or this Tochtuia goritos (1400-1600)

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:57 am

There are strong structural relationships between Tatar quivers and later Tibetan ones. This is true of late Safavid quivers from Iran and the even later Qajar quivers. Since all these cultures were in contact with each other to some degree, this is not surprising.

The Tatars in Russia were in communication with Iran and they also had strong connections with the Mongols back in Central Asia and Mongolia who where regularly dealing with Tibet. In this roundabout fashion, ideas could spread between the various cultures.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:00 am

The rings do not appear to be thumb rings.

Gleb · Post by **Gleb** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:34 am

The bone rings does not look like thumbrings.

The bow and the quiver is a late one. Crim-Tartar dated 16-17 c. AD. Might be from from late nomads (Crim Tartars, Nogai), Cherkess of Western Caucasus, Kozaks (Zaporozhje, Don, Russian and Polish Enlisted).

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:19 am

Yes i think too. But in museum subscribe- 12-13 th.

I "hard "working in Russian sites instead of you Gleb

Last time when i use Russian language -its about 20 years ago...

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:15 am

New russians book ilustrations vith "new" mongol bow look

historical iluminates

new Russian elektronic game

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:01 am

mongol exibishion in British museum(?)

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:31 pm

I found interesting story about bow from Blagoveschenskij museum.
I try translate some facts (sorry for mi stupid english)

A.R. Artemev

Kagan Gantimur bow.

In 1938 kasak Aleksei Katanaev give like a gift old bow from his grand, grand ....father kagan Gantimur to Blagoveschenskij museum .He talk all history from this very old bow.Gantimur was Evenk kagan. Big person in 16th Amur river region. He was close vith Dulikagir tribe -leader of Evenko-Nelyudy (in 1689 about 5600 person) + many daur slaves in north Amur.Gamntimur have 9 vife vith 30 children.In same year migrate from Mnchuria kagan Tuydochun, Baoday and Vendu.His family migrate from Chan-che river in Manchuria to Russian side close Ingoda river in 1651 .One from famili heritage was this bow vith gorit and Mongol sadle vith silver art work.1684 was Gantimur and his son Katanay christening vith name Peter and son Pavel. In 1693 meetRussian diplomat Izbrant Indesu Gantimuras son Pavel Petrovich Gantimurov . He was commander of 3 000 Tunguz horsarchers vith good horses and best bows .
Bow is very strong 175 cm long, birch wood core, 3 horn strips + 6 horn plates , birch bark cover , handle is covered vith tini loose skin .Bow is asimetrical . Uper siah 8-10 ? angel bigger then lover.In midle 19 th. was bow in Evenks Amur teritory only family artefact but all Evenks have in big finger horn or iron thumbring like simbol of future warior.

This is that bow

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:24 pm

The so-called Tochtuia goritos is a pair of bow case covers and what may be a bow case cover inverted and opened out. There are some really beautiful embroidered ones in Russian collections. I think that they were for storing valuable bow cases and quivers. The leather ones in Karlsruhe look more like they were fitted over the bow cases an quivers when worn to protect them from the elements.

There are always problems with modern reconstructions when they are not closely based on the originals. Because some closed quivers only partially survived, several illustrators have reconstructed them without any upper part so that the arrow heads stick up unprotected. Others have taken open quiver designs, reversed them and put the arrows in upside down. These types of illustrations can be misleading if they are believed to be accurate.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:20 pm

Old Buryat Bow . Intersting "midle" dizajn betveen Mongol and Turkish vith working kasan part like Koreans bow...

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:39 am

Dusan wrote:I found interesting story about bow from Blagoveschenskij museum.
I try translate some facts (sorry for mi stupid english)

A.R. Artemev...
....
This is that bow

Your English is fine and quite clear enough.

The Manchu origin of this bow is quite clear. The bow is over-reflexed because the sinew has dried out too much. The string bridges are missing, which is common in old bows.

S

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:47 am

Dusan wrote:

The Mongols in Ulaanbaatar say that the Buryat bow is one of the three classes admitted for the Naadam competition. It is called Buryat "Khagas" ('pony'). The others are Uryankhai "Tomor" ('iron') and Khalkha "Gung" ('Chinese style'). I have never seen an actual Buryat bow. Thanks for the photo. (There is an article on Buryat bows on ATARN http://www.atarn.org/mongolian/buryat_bow_eng.htm . There's some problem with the link to the illustrations. I'll try to fix it.)

S

Gleb · Post by **Gleb** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:13 am

Bede you are right in opinion of modern graphical reconstructions of Medieval archery. There are many so called historical artists who “just hear the bell’s ring but did not see the bell itself”.

Here please take a look at more accurate depiction of Alanic warriors of Khazar Khaganate time (8-10 c. AD). Moschevaya Balka and Gorops river bows attributed to that people and that period. These were made by Oleg Fedorov a well-known and meticulous modern artist. Dusan attached two of his pictures. Some of his works were published abroad (I have seen a French monograph on Khazar Khaganate illustrated by O. Fedorov).

Gleb · Post by **Gleb** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:15 am