The bow- finding of olon kurin gol

Orda Khan · Post by **Orda Khan** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:01 pm

Thanks Dusan, some superb information.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:12 pm

Only4 days later show me mi daughter how i can instal in mi keyvort russian alphabet

I from this time surfing in Russian sites like crazy

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:41 am

Interesting detail - how skits holding arrows in shooting

most kurgans looks like this

open kurgan-Olon Kurin gol-Pazirik cultur

this skita have tatoo in right hand

and left hand

some pieces of Skitas armour

Russian archeologist thing that skitas have predominantly litle -60 to 80 cm wood or composite ,but not reflex bows. Only nobility mans have , special reflex weapons. From many of opening kurgans was founded about 2000 arrows but only10 bows in pieces . And more of these bows looks like non recurving bows (?).

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:50 am

The bas-relief at the top of the collection of photographs is of a Parthian archer, not a Scythian one. I think the original is in a German museum.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:27 pm

Thank you Bede. This pic was like ilustration , about Skitas archery . Wrong destination.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:35 am

interesting skitas ring

Ermitage muzeum Pazirik finding - belt

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:27 pm

Back to the skitas goritos

Repjachovatoj mog. gorit vith arrowheads

Opishljanka and Vitovaja mog. vith gold fragments

Kelermes and Archangelsk mog.
gold details from goritos

gold goritos buckle

Iljicevo gold fragments

Kelermes goritos gold

Aksutienci mog. gold detail

Kelermes glod goritos bottom

Pastak 1 mog. gorit.gold

Pastak (like German eagle...)

Usten quiver

detail

details from goritos

Balik sook belt

arrow nocks from bone ...1 Darievna, Suvar,Iljicevka,Cerebajevo,jelizavetovskaja,

skitas sword

russians idea about skitas bow

For comparison vith Gleb Polovets sculptures-skitas sculptures

enjoi...

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:19 am

Redhawk; I came on this and thought you and others would enjoy. I have a question about the Olon Kurin Gol bow. Did you notice any tool marks on the wood? Specifically it would be interesting to know if the wood slats had been split and shaved smooth or if they had been sawed? Any opinion?

Reproduction by N.B. Polsmak. Gorytus bag - Ukock, Altai. 5-3c BCE. Jack

redhawk · Post by **redhawk** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:13 pm

Thanks Jack, this reconstruction has been made by one of the recontructors in the institute I ?ve been. But he used hide tanned in a nowadays way.
I couldn?t find any marks of a saw on the bow- findings.
If you choose the wood very carefully, it is possible to split the slats.
I?ve done oneof these bows by splitting the woods and than I smoothed them with a knife and sanding- paper.
In the meanwhile I?ve almost finished a stronger version of the olon kurin gol- bow. So I would conclude that the bow is a shootable and useful weapon. But anyway the question remains, why it was done in such a delicious manner?

Michael

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Sat May 02, 2009 2:25 pm

But all wood arrows (vith wood copies bronz arroeheads ) indicate non worked - simbolic weapon.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sat May 02, 2009 2:38 pm

You might still need a real bow to shoot magic arrows. There are indications in other cultures that it was not considered a good idea to equip the dead with weapons that could harm the living.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Sat May 02, 2009 2:59 pm

Maybe . This complicated from many pieces slats bow is very interesting.But ,from many russians archeologist founds about 80% bows form kurgans are very litlle(70-100cm) no composed wood bows...

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Sat May 02, 2009 10:52 pm

Michael; Weren't most gorytus made of stiff leather? One was found in Samarkand made of ox hide. This would not be soft and supple. Stephen's friend will analyize the wood for you. Why not work on that? If you split wood and scrape smooth there are two types of tool marks.

Dusan, Yes, many grave goods are too small. But why go to all the trouble to make a bow like Olon? And Michael said there were horn nock pieces. Is that correct?

Bede; I have noticed many arrows from graves that should have had points but did not. I feel a new topic coming up. Is there an available reference?

redhawk · Post by **redhawk** » Sun May 03, 2009 8:47 am

Jack, the glue lines are perfectly smooth and fitting, the problem with the tool marks is, that there is no slat as a whole and time has twisted them.
The only marks you could see very clearly are the tracks from the wrappings at the strong curves beside the grip- section.
Some tracks on the slats look like marks done by a knife, but I?m not too sure about that.
The complete belly- side of the recurves is covered with horn- plates, even at the nocks.
I?ve not seen this gorit itself, maybe the reconstructor has not really done it, but as an animation.
I?m not to sure about stiff leather used for the gorit, many goritoi have been made as a wooden frame covered with leather.
The excavated clothes and shoes have definitely been done with soft tanned hides (maybe time has made them soft, I?m not a tanning- expert)

The greatest problem with the project actually is, that the sponsors regard it as finished. Pics are done, the publications will coming out soon.
That?s it! No more interest even in Stephens generous offer.
I?m not satisfied with the results. From my point of view more questions have arised than answers have been found.
After some years of a hype with expositions about the Scythians, I guess the Scythians are just going out of fashion.

But there is the ATARNET with some guys crazy enough for to go on.

Jack, why are you asking for the tool- marks?

My main question is focused on the whole constrution: why such a very hard to do bow? I can?t even imagine that the Scythians bowyers were not able to make more effecient selfbows in a much shorter time?

Michael

Reto · Post by **Reto** » Sun May 03, 2009 9:46 am

Hi Michael

Though the sponsorship will be finished for this project I am very much interested in seeing a finished functional Scythian bow after such a long post, discussions and watering our mouths in ATARN/PaleoPlanet (with chrono test as mentioned previously), or does this more depend on sponsorship/money than on craftsmanship? Do we get this information with the publication?

Best regards
Reto

The bow- finding of olon kurin gol

olon kurin gol..........

olon kurin gol