Turkish Archery Reenactment 2009

temren · Post by **temren** » Sat May 30, 2009 1:17 pm

Hello Friends,

We took part in the Sad?b?d Festivities again this year. The event took place on the 25th of May 2009. As usual we reeancted several aspects of Turkish archery, such as flight, competition and battle archery. Just as last year, the climax of the show was shooting side by side with olimpic recurve shooters at a pot with 10 gold coins in it. The shooter who was to pierce or break the pot would be the owner of those coins. It was olimpic shooter Murat Emre Batmaz who got them at the end. You can see the pictures of the event and its preparations on this page:
http://www.tirendaz.com/en/?page_id=220
A youtube video of the event is yet to follow.

We are also in the process enriching the english version of the site and theres much more to come on both versions, so make sure to check back from time to time.

Regards, Adnan...

Paul Slawik · Post by **Paul Slawik** » Sat May 30, 2009 7:44 pm

Dear Adnan,

Thanks for putting these pictures up. It was fun and inspiring to go through looking at the pictures and see how fun you must have had.

I'm looking forward to see more on your website and keep up the good work!

Regards,
Paul

MJuingong · Post by **MJuingong** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:34 am

Very nice pictures.

Questions:
1. were the "antique" bows actual horn-wood-sinew composites, or the Grozer, Kassai, Saluki, etc replicas?
2. am I correct that the arrows, in the nock portions at least, were modern (and maybe fletching)?
3. The metal target:
a. what was the material?
b. what thickness?
c. what range was it shot at?
d. what was the extent of penetration of the arrows, i.e., how far beyond the far side after perforation of the slab?

Alan Flashing · Post by **Alan Flashing** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:11 am

Thank you very much for posting the link to the Turkish archery site. I enjoyed it very much.
Alan

Katie Stearns · Post by **Katie Stearns** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:17 am

Great pictures! Looks like a lot of fun. I really like all of the traditional clothing

temren · Post by **temren** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:46 am

Thanks for all your kind words! I am glad you liked the pictures.

For MJuingong' s questions:

1. The bows were all Grozer Turkish Base except two. Those two fiberglass replicas are the product of one of the actors in the show. Detailed info regarding Turkish made replicas will follow soon on the website.

2. Yes, some nocks were plastic "modern" material. Due to lack of equipment ( some new friends didnt have much time prepare) we also have used aliminum arrows in some cases. But some arrows had traditional "adi gez" nocks, meaning they had nocks carved into their shafts (gez means nock as well as many other things and adi means "common" in this context). In Turkish Archery there are also nocks that where built in into the shafts.

3. a) The plate was galvanised steel.
b) I remember that the thickness was 1mm, cant be less than 0,8 mm
c) They shot at the plate from 4 meters. From what I have observed, it is more important to hit it with the right angle rather than power. Furthering the distance may actually help you, since the arrow flight will be more stabilised until it reaches the target.
d) We really havent measured the amount of penetration. I would say around 15-20 cm's max. It also changes with arrow type and arrow head (Turkish for arrow head: temren

) .

Murat ?zveri · Post by **Murat ?zveri** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:13 am

Hello everyone,

Thanks for all the responses.

What I'd like to add to what Adnan said are as follows:

In our re-enactments we do not use the exact copies or replicas of the authentic equipment. There are so many reasons and one of them is the difficulities in making shafts with endams (barreled profiles), suited arrowheads and nocks. The shaft-head connection is prone eto breakage if used on modern target butts that we have. The traditional targets, puta, were used only in re-enactments and shows. The modern hay-or foam targets provide too much friction for such shafts. And fiberglass bow replicas became a norm due to their effordable price and user-friendly attitude. We do have two hornbows in the group.

The metal plate we pierced is thinner than that we could accomplish. Less than perfect release or inconvenient shot angulation may cause failures that we don't prefer in a show. Last year we made a little test on a 2 mm thick steel plate with a resistance of 430 N/mm2. If it's supported by the target butt it's easy to pierce such a plate from 8 and 16 m distances by using bodkin type heads. I'm attaching some pictures of our test. Arrowheads are glue-on type (unlike the authentic Turkish heads) and one of them is probably a phantasy design. The bow was of Grozer again, a hornbow 54# of draw weight. Grozer's hornbows are rather slow and poor performers. But it permormed sufficiently on that plate. This test was planned and made by Dr. Mert Topcubasi and me.

A more realistic test about the Turkish bow-arrow piercing capability was made by a Polish friend of Adam Karpowicz and the initial, unofficial results were given in Adam's book (Turkish bows outperform English longbow if the shaft-head connection survives the impact).

The rationale and goal of this and previous three re-enactments are making people (especially the new generation) aware of this cultural value. A narration including bow making and morphology, disciplines historical background etc. accompanied our re-enactment. With good media coverage I guess we succeeded. It's been only a few years since I traveled to Hungary to learn how to use the thumbring, wrote e-mails to Adam and Bede to discuss what I found out from ancient texts, made countless tries in shooting in various styles and in making thumbrings. Now there are many enthusiasts of Turkish traditional archery who shoot and appreciate Turkish thumbrelease. However, this show is another small step and I hope better re-eanactments will be organised in the near future.

Murat ?zveri · Post by **Murat ?zveri** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:19 am

Sorry for double post

These are the pics I intented to attach. You'll see another 2 mm thick plate and the related technical data.

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:04 am

Murat,

I think your approach is just right. Get the masses of young people hooked first and then let the historical purists come out and play.

What you need next is a romantic historical movie with an archery theme.

S

Murat ?zveri · Post by **Murat ?zveri** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:36 am

Thank you Stephen. Your comments are always valuable.

Actually, two years ago 6 of us took role in a historical documentary drama about Hayme Ana, the grandmother of Osman Gazi. She probably was a member of the so-called "Baciyan-i Rum" (lit. Roman Sisters; Anatolia was called as "Rum" or "Roman" at that time since it was the land of East Roman Empire). This society revealed a kind of "knight cult", connected to Islamic mysticism, and consisted of female warriors who fought in the name of God. These ladies played a very important role to construct the social and cultural substructures in 12th and 13th centuries.

We were just 6 men who played the archers in the early Ottoman period and paid great attention for being histrorically as true as possible. The director was a smart man and used us not only as actors but also as consultants. The archery scenes were discussed prior to filming.

Baciyan-i Rum was on stage at this re-enactment. Buket Okten Topcubasi, the first female traditional archer after 1939, played in a scene of war archery at which we demonstrated shooting in kneeling positions. Now, we have three more ladies who joined us very recently and they'll be proficient enough soon. One of them, Selda Kulcu even took a role in the reenactment.

Just another little step forward...

M??a · Post by **M??a** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:33 pm

hi Murat.
Best regards from Prague. Nice pictures, nice peoples and nice event

I made some tests of penetrating capability of Turkish arrows too. Arrows was in traditional shape and it was made as much as possible from traditional material.
Steel 2mm thick:

and beer bottle

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:56 pm

Miso

thats answer for people who think that litle traditional made turkisch arrow with his small arrowhead is too "fragile".

M??a · Post by **M??a** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:24 pm

No. Itś superstition

Tanged arrowhead has 4mm in diameter and arrow has 18g weight

Hyarmendacil · Post by **Hyarmendacil** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:50 pm

The modern princess seams on the entari might bother me a little bit, but overall...great pictures!

temren · Post by **temren** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:53 am

No nitpicking please!