Korean arrow guide

ginni · Post by **ginni** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:31 am

Looking those following movies I have seen some strange things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH94dw-YK6Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ISoQs8W8Rcd

In first movie, starting at 1:01 to 1:17 it can be seen the channel of the tonga being slightly oriented upward, not perpendicular to bows plane.
Next, when the arrow is released, the tonga make a rotation counter-clockwise until the channel is oriented up, in paralel plane with the bow.
The rear part of dart is going upward, that because of high nocking point in korean technique and this tonga rotation and vertical oscilation of the dart can be seen in the second movie starting to 3:08 from 3:14.

I guess that korean tonga is made with the chanel slightly oriented to upside and this pic should confirm this suposition:

This option would be choose to avoid friction between the rear part of dart and the superior edge of the channel when the nock is going up, this movement can damage or break the arrow (producing vibrations?), if the chanel is made at 90 degrees from bow plane.

Now, I wonder if it possible to use korean technique (high nocking point and low gripping) and shooting a majra. I thing it can be dangerous shooting a majra when the nock is starting to going up, the point can go down and hit the bow hand.

Or it will be wise to nock lower an griping the bow using turkish or arab technique, by pushing with the flesh between index and thumb?

Thomas Duvernay · Post by **Thomas Duvernay** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:41 pm

Just be careful not to base everything upon that picture, as it is one I took of a modern-made tong-a in my collection.

ginni · Post by **ginni** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:25 am

Thomas,

How work this tong-a? Is a good one?
I want to make one and I just searched an explication for the shape... Why the maker did made the channel that way?

The movie can deliver a response, but I am not so sure. And I have only one bamboo stick. After seeing the movie, a rectangular majra, easier to made for me, look to be dangerous, because will not allow the rear part of the dart rear to move up and the majra it self cannot rotate due the exterior rectangular shape.
The trajectory of the nocking point after release is very important I think, it should travel straight alongside arrow guide for a safer shooting.
I can make a shah majra, I already have wooden profiles. With this behavior of the dart, the arrowhead can go down, extend the lower string chanel and hit the bow hand, so the safest majra could become the worst option when shooting with a hwarang.

I didn't found the site where the picture was posted... please tell me if you want to remove it.

Thomas Duvernay · Post by **Thomas Duvernay** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:35 am

ginni wrote:Thomas,

How work this tong-a? Is a good one?
I want to make one and I just searched an explication for the shape... Why the maker did made the channel that way?

The movie can deliver a response, but I am not so sure. And I have only one bamboo stick. After seeing the movie, a rectangular majra, easier to made for me, look to be dangerous, because will not allow the rear part of the dart rear to move up and the majra it self cannot rotate due the exterior rectangular shape.
The trajectory of the nocking point after release is very important I think, it should travel straight alongside arrow guide for a safer shooting.
I can make a shah majra, I already have wooden profiles. With this behavior of the dart, the arrowhead can go down, extend the lower string chanel and hit the bow hand, so the safest majra could become the worst option when shooting with a hwarang.

I didn't found the site where the picture was posted... please tell me if you want to remove it.

It's not a bad tong-a, but I'm not overly fond of it as it seems to be made out of fiberglass. I much prefer one made from bamboo, as they seem sturdier. The channel is wide-narrow-wide for safety reasons; the pyeonjeon will not jump out when it is that way.

I don't mind you posting the pic, so please feel free to use it here.

T

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:49 pm

Ginni,
The wooden majras I make do the same thing. The rotation it caused by a slight inequality in the way the guide is held. This is a normal variation in shooting. I have had a guide rotate clockwise and and anticlockwise in separate shots. I think that the position of the loop on the drawing hand and how it's connected to the guide makes a difference in the direction of the rotation. The follow-through advised in Arab Archery and the similar one practised by some Korean archers pulls the guide off the bow hand and you cannot easily see the guide rotate. However, all these things happen after the dart has left the bow and are irrelevant to shooting.

The dart leaving nock up can be caused either by nocking high or by inequality between the limbs of the bow. I have found nocking high is often a way to avoid problems with a bow that has unequal limbs (where the bottom limb drags the nock of the arrow down because it is too strong).

Another reason can be that the dart is too narrow for the guide. It can be pointing up or down slightly when released. The Korean guide with a flat back end is prone to this problem. However, this can be corrected by the archer.

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:11 am

Whenever I see this topic come up, I feel bound to tell everyone that this thing is dangerous to the shooter and people around.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:23 am

As they say on MythBusters, "Don't try this at home!".

Stephen is right. Everyone has horror stories of accidents with these devices as well as near misses. They are not urban myths. I have had some narrow escapes and I am extremely careful when using one of these devices. I never forget to check the placement of the arrow in the guide no matter how confident I feel. As a result, I have seen several instances where had I shot I would have injured myself badly.

Shooting with the siper is just as bad and because of lack of control with a heavy bow, I short drew several shots at Bonneville Flats in the flight shoot. It's better to get beaten than to go to hospital (it was 160 miles away).

ginni · Post by **ginni** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:57 pm

Thank you all!
Is right, my principal concern is about safety.
Shooting with arrow guide is very atractive and very dangereous, I just want to know as much I can before trying myself.
First I thought that a king majra will be most safer, after seing thea movie, I will try only with a korean style tong-ah, with narrow chanel, narrower than arrow point.