Cylindrical thumb ring from black pool ball No 8 or Plastic

[orange]

Ou , source of confusion is then I had in my hand so far only this type of Cylindrical based rings:

Most rings of this form that were intended for shooting had one end tapered from the inside to the outside and the other with a taper from the outside to the inside. When worn, the outside tapered portion was towards the hand. This was where the string rested.

If you wear the ring close to the base of the thumb as shown in some western illustrations, the string inevitably presses on the tendons running from the hand up the inside of the thumb (these are the ones responsible for closing the thumb). This makes it very uncomfortable with strong bows

So if cut this rings they looks on borders asymmetrical a little like letter "S", sample from museum (I pick up with combination ivory/silver, so better visible)

The technique shown in several old photographs and in diagrams republished in Chinese Archery by Stephen Selby has the ring on the centrally on the thumb. This means that the knuckle of the thumb (the distal joint) is inside the ring and only the nail and its base are visible on the outside. So, unlike a middle Eastern ring, the thumb is not hooked through the ring. The thumb is bent so that the two inner surfaces of the thumb press against one side and the knuckle presses against the other. With this grip, you should not be able to pull the ring off your thumb until you straighten the thumb.

So this type of ring can be just simple symmetrically "D" shaped as we can see in this sample from museum:

[orange]

Osimu wrote or teflon ...

Some time ago I was also repairing old Paintball guns, I have contacts to local seal producers, which uses a variety of plastics and you can get there materials in small peaces (many time for free as cut off)

I pull my contacts there, but there are old and they need to be refreshed, so be patient.

For now, I can say:

No , Teflon (PTFE) , is not ideal choice, it's to expensive and you will be probably disappointed with result, because:

- Main reason is then, Teflon don't like pressure, it leak under it (it change its shape). Yes, there are a about 30 variant of PTFE with additives to solve this issue, some time ago I had along phone call with one of main Teflon producers under name Flexon, only usable variant will be variants with glass, but to drill/cut this variants you need to use expensive diamond tools and special cooling.

- Second reason is SAFETY, then if you heat Teflon more then 250C is very toxic and carcinogen, you can easily make this temperature when for example drilling.

Note: There a lot of new Cosmic Industry / High-Tech (read it = very expensive ) plastic like PEEK or PBI, so it's not realistic to use them, good jade (nefrite, jadeite) ring will be cheaper even if you will make it on 3D laser cutting digital machine as one time job.

[Daniel T.]

What about ABS, the plastic that e.g. laptop cases or a computer mouse is made of? It's mechanically strong and also tough on impacts.

[orange]

With ABS it will be similar too as with Ecological PPR (polypropylen) based Pipe Fittings used in water/gas pipes, which you can in any local hardware store:

PPR Pipe Fittings

They looks strong and hard, but they can be starched (they are not so slick as we may be need), they are good to try make and use ring, but not for regular use.

[jack farrell]

Orange; Since none of the rings you posted and admire are plastic, I was wondering how you recommend drilling Jade, for instance. I know that lapidary shops sell diamond core drillers.

I always recommend antler crown as easy to work and available. The tine sections could be used for Hunnic type ear laths.

Certainly horn is available enough and cheap. I would certainly be prouder to show the guys my horn ring than my PVC one, and mort traditional. -j-

[osmiu]

I have 2 or 3 rings made of polypropylen . unbreakable . but too much friction . and it bend on a strong bow .
I made one ring from cow bone . femur . very shiny and smooth . a turkish one . it break at first full draw .
I have or had rings of pool ball plastic that break ... some of them even develop deep channels in them because of the string pressure (I like to keep bow at full draw for long time before release)
I have some stainless steel thick plate ... but this must be a Sisif work .
The cow horn we usually manage to find here exfoliate .
Maybe deer horn , but , again , is hard to find .

[orange]

I have a luck to live in country which is one most producer of both synthetic diamonds based tools for drilling/cutting and carborundum as abrasive based tools for final work.

There are ways how to drill hard material at home (see later):

- For Cylindrical ring we need relatively large and deep hole and after a bigger cut to get ring pipe shape, for now looks like the only realistic, fast and relatively cheap way how to get one time small pipe from jade with your dimensions is 2D power machinery laser, after use or small diamond machinery tools or carborundum stuff used in Jewelery.

In China they use a series of drill bits, which are inside empty, to produce such pipes to be cut later for rings.

- For lip based rings, where we need real pure hole (can be smaller) and is in relatively small deep this like approach can be tried Diamond_drilling_porcelain or more time consuming drilling with diamond dust (protect your from breading it!!!) , but it can be cheaper to use specialized let peoples working with Glass to drill it for you with Glass ultra sound or hight pressure water/abrasive drill.

Plus Jade (Chinese Green Jadeite) has hardness on Moss scale 6-6.5 , most hard material are speaking in this thread is Vegetarian Ivory with Moss 4 , generally more harder materials like Jade or plastic with glass will need investment in special tools so it will be better to discuss them in separate thread.

MOHS SCALE OF MINERAL HARDNESS

PS: I already order nice gemstone for ring(s), we need to patient until order is processed.

Osimu how strong are your bows and how thin are you strings ?

[Daniel T.]

I disagree with ABS being similar to PPR. PPR is much softer and mechanically weaker. I was talking about the hard stuff, not rubber. A proper horn is probably superior to most standard plastics.

I had cow horn for horn tips on a bow once, but unfortunately it peeled apart like layers of an onion.

[osmiu]

I don't know draw-weight of my bows . on hwarang it is written 64 and both WindFighter was 60#28" . For WindFighter I manage to find some graphics for similar one :

but for hwarang , I don't have a clue . but I feel it stronger than Fighter .
WindFighters are history now . came in peace , go in pieces .

ps : that deep channels actually are not that deep , but deep enough to interfere with the release . so , for me ... are deep . string is regular fast-flight hwarang string . 22 strands I think . isn't 2.5 mm thick ? so ... what material for my rings ?

[orange]

ABS is used in high pressure pipes, outisde swimming polls and in car bupers, so it can be relative easily to get as small peace of pipe and compare it.

I will make a cylindrical ring from small PPR pipe (with right pipe size and tools it will be very fast), so we can really compare it too.

I feel here an confusion, then we are looking for most harder plastic (or other material), NO, we look for hard enough, because:

If you will apply a large pressure/force to small place of material it need to redistribute large tension inside, very hard materials have often issues with it, like:

- Local tension will crack material - it will brake apart

It can crack immediately or cracks will be microscopical and it will be accumulated over time until it breaks (it's one of type of fatigue of material )

OR

- Local tension will stretch material - it will leak/meld (deform) like rubber, but on hard enough plastics types this will be with larger force irreversible change which will grow when you will put force again

Some modern plastics can survive this type of deformations, if force is putted on them in relatively short period of time.

??? How to prevent this ???

1. Select better material

This is what is all this discussion about

Modern plastic some times have additive in form of strands, they are more restive to pressure in one direction, this generally not good for rings.

2. Change shape of ring so internal tension is better redistributed

In lip based rings make it more robust with reshaping part which string touch during draw. Here we can only try to follow generations of ring producers works on it, see variety of rings in lip based thread

In cylindrical ring we have already advantage of pipe shape, which is per design helps redistribution of tension.

3. Change force so it is applied on more material surface

Yes, make string thicker, it's not so hard because perimeter is Pi (3.14) of diameter.

PS: Mysa once show us how very thick was original Turkish strings.

Of course, having lighter bow will help to reduce force, I have 2 horse bows 45lb/30" with Dacron string and 65lb/30" with FF, I will experiment with plastics on 45lb, for 65lb I will use only original Korean lip based ring or jade (alternatively from bone) cylindrical one.

Also have draw/release done in 3 seconds instead of 20 ones will help, but it's unrealistic when you are learning how to draw with ring.
As Osimu state (I like to keep bow at full draw for long time before release)

Natural horn is good example how hard and still elastic material can be produced.

[orange]

Well, using a natural material will be nice, but from my experience quality now very vary, my friend is working in piercing studio and he also report then quality of horn material is lover and over

Osimu wrote:

The cow horn we usually manage to find here exfoliate .
Maybe deer horn , but , again , is hard to find.

Osimu is not native English so as me (it can be just wrong translation), but I need to point, then:

Deer have Antler, not horn, Atler is grow from bone and is like a bone and same as bone it can have inside cracks. Hrons are grom from skin and are from proteins Horn, they grow in similar way as human nails. To finish it , Ivory is grow from teeth and from dentine.

Cylindrical rings was made also from tiger bone and later from other ones.

So horn will be similar in finishing as plastic we are speaking about, so you can learn how to work with horn on plastic first.

However Anler/Bone is much harder, close to what (Vegetarian) Ivory is. We are waiting with one of my archer friend for March, hope we will have luck get good large enough Deer Antler for free, otherwise again jade ones will be cheaper.

[orange]

Because a real ivory is from teeth dentine , one of ideas is to use a dental materials for them.

Because dental materials are often applied under negative pressure into forms, so making even soft plastic rings make sense as starting pint of making such form. I have in family a dentist, I will try to make such ring, but I need to be sure then it will be good fit first, I have work for free, but material is expensive and I need to pay for it.

[orange]

I check ABS with friend who makes aircraft models, they use Hard ABS for wings and he tel me then it is relatively fragile, so I will exclude ABS for now.

[Daniel T.]

This is up to you. I don't want to get too technical because I feel we are loosing the point of the thread, but I'd like to say that there are many types of ABS. Perhaps your friend has a low butadiene content, in which case his material is more like polystyrene (brittle). But if you want a tough plastic, its either polycarbonate or (a proper) ABS (both are used in motorcycle helmets).

I had cow horn for horn nocks on a longbow, it peeled into layers like an onion.

[orange]

I manage to get a samples of technical plastics, plus friend donate me 2 different black horns and small vegetarian nut, so we will enough material for comparisons.

I will make a group photo soon.

Issue with modern plastics is then they are commonly have some additives for fit plastic to purpose, example can be a motorcycle helmets, where resistance to only one crash is needed. This is why I like a technical plastic, where you know all additives.

If somebody want to tray ABS for ring I will probably start with some old car bumper.