BARE THUMB SHOOTING

ravenbows · Post by **ravenbows** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:57 pm

Has anyone read much in their research about bare thumb shooting?

It seems to me that in the heat of battle that a thumbring could be easily lost and if there was not a replacement then the archer/soldier would need to use his bare thumb.

I have been using my bare thumb for a few days now. The bow is 64lbs and my thumb is starting to be built up for this.

But, I no longer can get my ring on my finger, and I love the way the bow is so much quieter, and also feeling the string seems to add to the instinctive feel.

Has anyone else had experience with this and if so how did you like it?

Was there any benefits or detractions? And did it effect arrow flight or performance at all?

Thanks

Joseph

Thomas Duvernay · Post by **Thomas Duvernay** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:49 am

In the martial art Kuksulwon, they are only allowed to shoot bare-thumbed (some of them shoot rather high-weight bows, too).

Take a look at the book, 5,000 Years of Korean Martial Arts by Barry Harmon.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:42 pm

There was a well known Mongolian woman who shot a #60 Mongolian bow bare thumb. Her right thumb was twice the width of her left. She had a leather cover over the serving, This was sewn onto the serving.

Tibor2 · Post by **Tibor2** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:31 pm

Hi Everyone,

I'd like to ask for your own point view about a question, whether it is possible to shoot mongolian draw with a 70-80# powered bow for longer period without using a thumb-ring?

I'm really curious whether you you know a nation in history mongolian draw didn't use thumb-ring?

Thanks for your help.

ravenbows · Post by **ravenbows** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:48 am

The bowyer that I bought my bow from has a hybrid Turk that is 90# and he shoots that bare thumb.

Now I did not know if he was a freak of nature or what but it seems that the thumb could be built up and perhaps it would be necessary in the battlefield.

I was just wondering if anyone else has tried or know of any publications speaking of this.

osmiu · Post by **osmiu** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:15 am

well ... in here is a saying : "don't get drunk with cold water" . my bow is pretty strong . I can shoot bare thumb . once, twice ... but a competition of target shooting may last for 10 hours or so . it's very painfull even with thumbring covered inside with leather .
so ... I wanna see with my own eys that guy who shoot bare thumb a 90# bow for 10 hours in a competition . because this is really shooting bare thumb , not shooting for show off .

ps : if in the past archers shooted bare thumb .... what is the reason for inventing thumb ring ?

Orda Khan · Post by **Orda Khan** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:10 am

I agree with Osmiu and for the reason he states, I would not even consider it. Why would anyone want to walk around with a deformed thumb in order to shoot a bow for recreation?

Tibor2 · Post by **Tibor2** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:26 pm

Thanks!

For me it is important to know which was the ancient Hungarians? draw technique. It was Mediterranean, Mongolian or something else? I suppose that the Hungarians (during 9-10th centuries)used the Mongolian draw technique such like many other Asian nations and ethnic groups. But why didn?t find the archeologists in the Hungarian warriors? tombs any thumb rings?
Every thumb rings were made of horn and were destroyed during the centuries? They didn?t use hard thumb rings? Or they used other drawing techniques?

Szabi Nagy · Post by **Szabi Nagy** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:39 pm

Tibor,

you may find the following link (in Hungarian) useful:
http://www.my-bow.hu/node/1350
There we tried to discuss the pros and cons of thumb draw and the early Magyars. Of course without solving the issue.
If you want to use your bare thumb anyway, please don't forget that we have a different lifestyle now. You can't go back in time and start learning archery at the age of 4... Especially with a stronger bow, your joints and tendons will have a lot of stress. As an alternative, you may try a leather thumb protector or even a glove...
Good luck, Szabi

Tibor2 · Post by **Tibor2** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:53 pm

Thank you, Szabi!

ravenbows · Post by **ravenbows** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:14 am

osmiu,

you make a great point. I did see him shoot this bow about 20 times with the bare thumb. And it was very quick shooting, not a long hold time.

Ten hours of constant shooting could facilitate some problems with the thumb. I do find that just a little tape over the thumb really make a big difference. I could potentially shoot all day at 64# with just a little tape.

I am just curious about the history of it.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:09 am

I shot bare thumbed for about five years in my early twenties. I would shoot for about an hour or two and, at the end of it, I was blistered and bleeding. This usually happened about three quarters of the way through so if I stopped earlier, I might have just developed calluses. The translators of Saracen Archery thought that Taybugha might have preferred shooting bare thumbed. The problem I found was that the skin of the thumb went numb and I did not realise I was damaging it until after I finished shooting.

I think most thumb ring users could survive a few dozen shots bare thumbed if their lives depended on it just the same as three-finger users.

There is good information in art in earlier times and at least one eye witness in later times that the Magyars used two fingers to shoot. Bertrandon de la Brocquiere travelled through Hungary in the 1430s and reported a two fingered draw. Despite being a Burgundian, he knew how to shoot with a thumb ring as well as the Mediterranean release and he had just been through Turkey and witnessed Turkish archery.

Szabi Nagy · Post by **Szabi Nagy** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:50 am

Bede wrote:
There is good information in art in earlier times and at least one eye witness in later times that the Magyars used two fingers to shoot. Bertrandon de la Brocquiere travelled through Hungary in the 1430s and reported a two fingered draw. Despite being a Burgundian, he knew how to shoot with a thumb ring as well as the Mediterranean release and he had just been through Turkey and witnessed Turkish archery.

Yes, this is exactly what we see in the Illuminated Chronicle (Chronica Hungarorum, 1360). However, there were a lot of changes in the 400-500 years between these and the conquest of the Carpathian basin, so maybe the shooting technique changed as well... just wondering.
Szabi

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:57 am

I think the lack of buried thumb rings in Hungarian tombs where bone bow pieces survived is a nail in the coffin of the use of archers rings in among the Magyars. However, they moved into areas where thumb rings were used. The Byzantines knew about them. The hard question is why would they not use them when the Tatars and the Ottomans did. They were fighting them; they copied their bows. There are some beautiful signed Hungarian bows of the period of the Turkish wars so there is no doubt the Hungarians could duplicate Ottoman technology.

The simplest answer is that they had a traditional way of shooting, which they were both comfortable with and successful with as well. They updated their bows, but felt no pressure to update that one technique.

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:23 am

I shoot bare thumb. If there were any nerves in my thumb before, they're long gone now. But I never shoot with a heavy bow. 40-45# is sufficient for all my needs.

A point about Mongolian archers. It's common in Mongolia to build up the string below the arrow nocking point with leather to reduce the discomfort of shooting off a bare thumb. Modern dacron and fast-flight strings let you get away with thin strings on a heavy bow. But in times when natural materials were used, bow strings were much thicker. My Qing bow 'standard' strings are 5mm in diameter.