Looks great, Jack!
Have you any data about relevant use Mahaleb cherry ? Ours Prunus woods are little haevier than other white woods- but this is super flexible wood.
The Scythian-type bows from Yanghai (Shanshan)
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jsachers
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Bede
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jack,
That is a very nice piece of work. I agree that there is more similarity in construction to angular bows than we would have thought without Stephen's cross sections.
For some of the others, working recurves are a continuing tradition in American archery. The farther from the grip, the more force is needed to bend a bow limb with constant thickness and width. However, the bows we have been discussing have been deliberately thinned down in the recurved section. There are two possible reasons for this, weight reduction and increased bending potential. So far everyone seems to agree that the thickness is too great for much bending.
Regarding some of the Russian discoveries, it seems that as the saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat. It is clear that everyone is aiming at the same shape of bow, but, in different places, different solutions have been found. Considering the vast geographic spread of these bows, I am not surprised. It is good to get these objects up on the web site so interested bowyers can see them.
That is a very nice piece of work. I agree that there is more similarity in construction to angular bows than we would have thought without Stephen's cross sections.
For some of the others, working recurves are a continuing tradition in American archery. The farther from the grip, the more force is needed to bend a bow limb with constant thickness and width. However, the bows we have been discussing have been deliberately thinned down in the recurved section. There are two possible reasons for this, weight reduction and increased bending potential. So far everyone seems to agree that the thickness is too great for much bending.
Regarding some of the Russian discoveries, it seems that as the saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat. It is clear that everyone is aiming at the same shape of bow, but, in different places, different solutions have been found. Considering the vast geographic spread of these bows, I am not surprised. It is good to get these objects up on the web site so interested bowyers can see them.
Bede
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Adam Karpowicz
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jack farrell
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An overall 1/16 inch allowance was made for a sinew skin. These are total dimensions, skin and all.
Dusan; I do not know the properties of this wood. I used it because I wanted to use live wood and am limited to what I have.
Adam; the deflex in each limb will approximate 3/4 wide by 1 inch high. Maybe you also find this disturbing according to what we understand about bow making practices.
Dusan; I do not know the properties of this wood. I used it because I wanted to use live wood and am limited to what I have.
Adam; the deflex in each limb will approximate 3/4 wide by 1 inch high. Maybe you also find this disturbing according to what we understand about bow making practices.
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Adam Karpowicz
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scemdonmez
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redhawk
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Jack, great job, very well done. Keep it on, sinew it and let it cure.
I guess you?re of the patient ones.
You?ve matched the amount of asymmetry to be seen in the original much more exactly than Adam. You know, I love asymmetrical bow- designs.
Waiting for final full- draw pics!!
I?ve never seen a full-draw pic of a subeixi- bow- reconstruction!
Bede, do you really think these recurves could work?
There seems to be another significant difference in the subeixi and the olon- kurin gol- Scythians types of bows- design(subeixi is much more a hornbow than the olon kurin gol bow):
The limbs of the olon kurin gol bow are tapered in width and thickness from the grip- section till the nocks very carefully. This provoques much more working in the limbs itself. Whereas the subeixi- bow is above all working in the sharp curves at the ends of the grip- section.
I think this is necessary, cause even the best wood- lamination would not stand such tension/pressure as it is caused by such a sharp (and short) curve.
Maybe we could assume that the Scythian hornbows were spreaded among the more Southern regions and the Scythian wooden lams were spreaded in the Northern regions of the Central Asian Steppe .
By the way Jack, did you know that a Greek hero bow- type had been already used by stoneage- hunters from the upper valley of the river Nile.
On the attached pic of a petroglyph you can easily recognize the Greek hero bow- type with the " reversed recurves ".
Something to think about.
It is told that the Cretans have used angular bow- designs too, any more info about that?
Michael
I guess you?re of the patient ones.
You?ve matched the amount of asymmetry to be seen in the original much more exactly than Adam. You know, I love asymmetrical bow- designs.
Waiting for final full- draw pics!!
I?ve never seen a full-draw pic of a subeixi- bow- reconstruction!
Bede, do you really think these recurves could work?
There seems to be another significant difference in the subeixi and the olon- kurin gol- Scythians types of bows- design(subeixi is much more a hornbow than the olon kurin gol bow):
The limbs of the olon kurin gol bow are tapered in width and thickness from the grip- section till the nocks very carefully. This provoques much more working in the limbs itself. Whereas the subeixi- bow is above all working in the sharp curves at the ends of the grip- section.
I think this is necessary, cause even the best wood- lamination would not stand such tension/pressure as it is caused by such a sharp (and short) curve.
Maybe we could assume that the Scythian hornbows were spreaded among the more Southern regions and the Scythian wooden lams were spreaded in the Northern regions of the Central Asian Steppe .
By the way Jack, did you know that a Greek hero bow- type had been already used by stoneage- hunters from the upper valley of the river Nile.
On the attached pic of a petroglyph you can easily recognize the Greek hero bow- type with the " reversed recurves ".
Something to think about.
It is told that the Cretans have used angular bow- designs too, any more info about that?
Michael
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Kyudohund
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jack farrell
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Thanks for the encouragement everyone but I am not quite there yet. Soon the long wait begins.
Michael, that is the typical shape of an Egyptian long bow- three curves rather than 5. There was one I posted from Israel, 2500 BCE. It was olive wood, no backing.
The reason for choosing the Subexi was because of the extreme asymmetry.
Michael, that is the typical shape of an Egyptian long bow- three curves rather than 5. There was one I posted from Israel, 2500 BCE. It was olive wood, no backing.
The reason for choosing the Subexi was because of the extreme asymmetry.
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redhawk
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jack farrell
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Michael; Am not sure if I have information relating bronze age Greek self bows to Egyptian self bows. Maybe start a thread and see where it goes. Show what you have. There is interest.
We all hammered Cretan bows thoroughly some years ago. There were lots of posts and illustrations. See what you can find there. As I recall there were self bows with the Ibex horn a trade good to Egypt. Try Minoan also.
We all hammered Cretan bows thoroughly some years ago. There were lots of posts and illustrations. See what you can find there. As I recall there were self bows with the Ibex horn a trade good to Egypt. Try Minoan also.
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Bede
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The petroglyph is of a self bow with a reflexed grip and deflexed tips. This is a common solution to the problem of bows that would otherwise follow the string if highly braced. Aside from Ancient Egyptian bows in museums and other petroglyphs in Africa, some North American Indians made similar bows, but shorter. Bows that look the same are still used in parts of North East Africa.
I have seen a picture of a replica bow made which looks like a cross between those Greek bows without a setback handle and some of the longer bows on the Susa glazed brick pictures of the Persian bodyguards of the Great King. It is being made with the cross sections of a Xinjiang bow. I am looking forward to hearing how it behaves.
I am hoping some of the very precise replicas being made by some of the contributors to this thread will answer the question of whether the recurves worked or not. Even a small amount of flexure might contribute to the bow's performance. On the other hand, the lowering of weight gained by making the tips thinner and narrower might be enough to justify the design. We will know when a few of the reconstructions are tested by their makers.
I have seen a picture of a replica bow made which looks like a cross between those Greek bows without a setback handle and some of the longer bows on the Susa glazed brick pictures of the Persian bodyguards of the Great King. It is being made with the cross sections of a Xinjiang bow. I am looking forward to hearing how it behaves.
I am hoping some of the very precise replicas being made by some of the contributors to this thread will answer the question of whether the recurves worked or not. Even a small amount of flexure might contribute to the bow's performance. On the other hand, the lowering of weight gained by making the tips thinner and narrower might be enough to justify the design. We will know when a few of the reconstructions are tested by their makers.
Bede