Interesting Asiatic Bows in Russian Collections

This is where we discuss the bows, arrows, quivers and other hardware used in Asian archery.
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Bede
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Post by Bede » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:09 am

JBL,
I have that book.Maenchen-Helfen was a thorough researcher and much of what he wrote is still valid.

The section on war bows is speculation as he admits.
The bow of the Huns discussed on the following pages was a war bow, as presumably most bows in burials were; they lay in the graves of warriors. About the hunting bows of the Huns we have no information, but that they were different from the war bow is practically certain.The Huns could not have hunted ducks and foxes with their precious composite bows. War bows and hunting bows were often as different as rifles and shotguns.
He details the season for his conclusions, but they are based on non-Hunnish depictions on stela in Panticapaeum in the Crimea.

Undoubtedly he is right about the value of composite bows but he infers that they had profession bowyers, which has not yet been proved. More likely is the assertion that most adult men could make a bow of sorts and some men were particularly skilled and traded bows to whomever could afford them.

If I wanted a duck dinner, I doubt that I would go home to get a hunting bow if I had my war bow with me.

Dusan,
Regarding the problems that artist had: we all agree that they were doing their best. It is our job to discover the information in the art.

Subedei's weight has generated some very funny stories. There is a historical novel written by Cecilia Holland called Until the Sun Falls about Subedei's campaign in the West. It has some echoes of Gogol's Taras Bulba, but it is a subtle look at the Mongols and their attitudes to the West. It is not completely historical, but an interesting book to read for pleasure.
Bede
Dusan
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Post by Dusan » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:47 pm

Some quivers, saadaks, kolchans...

Turkish-Istanbul

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Bashkir

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Exposition Salavat.Julaev s.Malojaz

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Tatar

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Tatar 15-16 c.

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Tibetan

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Russian Tsar 1627 -1628

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same

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Kasak

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Old Novgorord

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North Siberia Tchukcha

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jbl
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Post by jbl » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:08 am

Ashbow makes sense if it had been strung for along time. Either way it is interesting and as it was made in the 17th Century it is Polish as it was made during the time of the Commonwealth. Maybe a Pancerni bow. I love looking at these old weapons wishing they could actually talk because the stories they could tell would just be amazing.
Dusan
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Post by Dusan » Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:38 am

another art pics. Mongol army heavy armoured officer- based from founds:

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China- Dzingis -chan

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Ardamir catch Ardavan - Schach manuscript

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Interesting -Kings Arsenal museum - GB-Leeds - very interesting exposition:

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armour from Mongol invasion-Hakata museum - Japan

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Kulikovo pole -Russia - Mongol horse armour(reconstruction)

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Most interesting bow ! Kulikovo pole mus. Medieval hunting bow . Looks very like northern Holmegaard bow !

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Jos?Dom
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Post by Jos?Dom » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:42 pm

That Russian quiver and bowcase are amazing. Just imagine the bow and arrows related to these pieces!
Dusan
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Post by Dusan » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:55 am

New film moovie about Dzinghis chan- " Dzingischan secret".

Click on the red rectangle

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... s%3Disch:1

Director-Jakut
2 director-Buriat
director of war scenes-kaskaders-China
Producers-Mongols, Buriats....
Last edited by Dusan on Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jbl
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Post by jbl » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:41 pm

Is that a sequel to "Mongol"?
Dusan
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Post by Dusan » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:53 pm

No new moovie.
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KenH
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Post by KenH » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:00 pm

Dusan - "interesting bow" does not look like Holmg?rd to me. Instead looks like M?llegabet design from 7000 years ago in Denmark.

Holmg?rd design does not have distinct shoulders and the tips are working parts of the bow. M?llegabet design has nearly flat working inner limbs with sharp shoulders to the handle and to the stiff non-working tips which are nearly flat in the other plane.

There have been several Holmg?rd design bows found in archaeological digs, but only one M?llegabet. Some think it was a "youth bow" because it was only 48 inches long and 1-1/4 inches wide. I have a replica that is one piece of elm, a friend made it for me, which draws 43# @ 27 inches.

The M?llegabet appears to be the oldest rigid tip bow design discovered.

Because I am studying the M?llegabet design and other things Neolithic, I would like to know more about that particular museum exhibit... where they found the bow, what age was the site, who made the replica (or is that the original), etc.
Dusan
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Post by Dusan » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:19 pm

Thats sound new for me, Ken. I dont know nothing about Mollegabet bow. Can you post some pics ? I know only about Holmegard and his "new flyt " disain vith no working ends. Or this is , like you say Mollegabet stile ?
This bow was in KULIKOVO POLE museum Russia Who stay in Kulikovo Pole (Kulikov-its like sombodys name-pole was -field), place where was biggest battle between Golden Horde and Russians near Don river - tudays Tula region.
Bow looks like original , but we knows from Gleb , that many exponats was modern reconstruction based on founds...(?)I like this bow , becose its for me like midle disain in Bow evolution to composites - cros siberians twoo wood bows -of course.
Last edited by Dusan on Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dusan
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Post by Dusan » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:40 pm

well, i was little search in net and know somthing about Mollegabet bow. Very interesting. All this people who cal his bows" Holmegard " can change this name :)
Dusan
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Post by Dusan » Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:09 pm

Pic from "Dzingischan secret" moovie :


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This funny bows arnt from Grozer , or korean masters ... Some mongols moovie bowmakers :) ?
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KenH
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Post by KenH » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:43 am

Hi Dusan. Since you did some searching and may have seen these images:

Here is a photo of a recovered Holmg?rd bow. Notice the more or less normal taper from the handle fades to the tips.
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And here's a sketch of the recovered M?llegabet. Notice the distinct shoulders, which the Holmg?rd does not have:
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Dusan
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Post by Dusan » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:58 am

Thank you , Ken. I search this info in Paleoplanet and some archeologist report from Dania (but in danish... :shock: ) I understand all diferences. Bow in Kulikovo field museum looks like sinewed/understable if you see his no more than 130cm L/, but this dont changed his interesting disain.Somwhere back in this thread, if i dont mistake i post contact in Kulikovo Pole/field/ museum. You can try asked more ...
Andrzej Abratowski
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Post by Andrzej Abratowski » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:33 am

This topic is crazy and we are madman

I'm back to the ATARNet after longer time and try to grasp it
I'm finished with terrible headache, no I'm not finished, I'm dead
Towarzystwo Łucznictwa Tradycyjnego
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