Saddle build anyone done this?

Duncan · Post by **Duncan** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:17 pm

Has anyone built a saddle for horse archery?
If you have what style and where did you find plans?
And last let's see em!

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:32 pm

I built several saddles many years ago. I had read Saracen Archery and decided the saddles I could buy were unsuitable for the techniques required to shoot in that style.

Originally I used the measurements of the tree of Universal Pattern Military Saddle to determine the lay out of the saddle in relation to the horse's back. I surveyed many pictures of real Oriental saddles and artistic representations to get the shape of the pommel and cantle.

This saddle looked right, but I hadn't really made the underside of the saddle efficient. It worked but it was not suitable for long distance riding. So with the help of a friend, I modified a UP military saddle by adding a pommel. These saddles were usually used with equipment strapped to the front which served as a pommel substitute. My pommel was a leather covered metal strip riveted to the fore arch of the tree. It fitted between the two tie-downs of the seat where they went over the arch. This caused the seat to dip more and provided a much better saddle for horse archery. With the front and (existing) rear pommels, the saddle looked something like a Kazak saddle. It was good for the horse and comfortable for the rider and, since military saddles are cheap, a good economic solution.

This is not an American McClellan saddle. It has a slung webbing seat under the leather like a Hungarian Hussar saddle. It could be used with short stirrup leathers to stand in the saddle to shoot. It was possible to lean forward on the pommel in manner recommended by Taybugha.

After all these experiments and buying an antique Bukharan saddle, I found a book on making Mongolian saddles by an Australian author. The book, The Mongolian Saddle and How To Make It, is published by Rams Head Press and here is a URL to the site: http://users.tpg.com.au/users/ramskull/leatherwork.htm

The book has scaled plans and detailed instructions on how to build a generic Mongolian saddle. Since acquiring the book, I have examined many original saddles and found that its descriptions are practical and accurate. The catalogue of the Karlsruhe collection has several good photographs of Hungarian and Turkish saddles from the side and below which help work out other designs.

daryush · Post by **daryush** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:14 am

Bede: do you have any photos?

Also, what techniques require a different saddle?

Thanks

jsachers · Post by **jsachers** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:00 am

Pieces in the Karlsruhe collection: http://www.tuerkenbeute.de/sam/sam_rei/

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:04 pm

I will look for some photographs.

The primary technique in Saracen Archery is described so:

When charging, he stands in the stirrups and leans forward ever so slightly , taking care not to lean over too far. It is a half, and not a full, standing position that is required as the rider rises in his stirrups. In precise terms, he should stand in this manner and lean forward slightly over the saddle bow, bending his waist over a little so as to set his navel on it.

This is difficult to do on a standard English saddle since there is no pommel to stop the rider moving too far forward and there is no dip in the seat to centre him. If you look at most modern horse archers, they are sitting down on the saddle or very close to it because it is the wrong shape to support them. Very good horsemen can do this half standing position on any saddle, but the rest of us have difficulties.

Both the Australian Stock Saddle and the American Western Saddle offer more support, but it is not quite in the right place. The Australian saddle prevents the leg from straightening at the correct angle and the America saddle can induce pressure points on the inside of the thighs. With a modified military saddle you can half stand and also easily twist around because you are not sitting down in the seat. Afghan saddles are very good for this as are Mongol saddles. Hungarian hussar saddles and Cossack saddles are perfect too.

Lucas Novotny built a replica of one of the Siebenburg saddles from Karlsruhe and it was perfect to see. It had all the functionality of the old saddles.

jak · Post by **jak** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:42 pm

Hi Duncan I have the lukas Novotny saddle(from karlsruhe) and you can

see it on my blog ....in gougle write "EPONARC"

but HA have many differents style so there is not "the saddle" for HA

choice your style first and then oneday you will find the right saddle for

you

I have 5 differents saddles for HA and I have asked a saddle -maker to

make me a special one for special purpose

jonR · Post by **jonR** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:04 am

Somewhere on my hard drive I have the plans for a Steppe style saddle. I did commision one made but the saddler decided he didn't want to tackle the job some way down the road.
If I can unbury them I would gladly email them to you.
Jonwr.

Duncan · Post by **Duncan** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:18 pm

Folks thank you all for all the help!
I am horse poor right now but I do plan on getting one soon and I will be nuts enough to try and build a saddle my self.
The info yall gave is really helpful and when I go crazy and try this I will show my mistakes as well as my success
Dunc

daryush · Post by **daryush** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:04 pm

I just got the book Bede was referring to about Mongolian saddles. It's really well written and a good read. I am going to make a miniature when I have the time before progressing onto a proper saddle.

Alan Flashing · Post by **Alan Flashing** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:45 pm

Here is the special bareback rig by John Bozanich that I use. While not a historical replica it is very close contact and extremely secure not to mention light weight and it does have that ethnic look to it.. The bucking rolls help greatly to stabilize while shooting.

jsachers · Post by **jsachers** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:29 pm

Here's an interesting article called "Riding horse tack among the cattle-breeders of Central Asia and Southern Siberia in the first and second millennia CE" ??not exactly a blue print, but illustrations of saddle trees etc.

daryush · Post by **daryush** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:20 am

jsachers wrote:Here's an interesting article called "Riding horse tack among the cattle-breeders of Central Asia and Southern Siberia in the first and second millennia CE" ??not exactly a blue print, but illustrations of saddle trees etc.

Hey, I posted that one in another thread

jsachers · Post by **jsachers** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:19 am

daryush wrote:Hey, I posted that one in another thread

Aaaah, so that's where I got it from in the first place ... Thanks, Daryush! Good material.

lancelot · Post by **lancelot** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:45 pm

In Germany we have developed a horseback archery saddle.

German saddle:
http://files.homepagemodules.de/b189632/f7t39p58n5.jpg

Saddle maker is called: "Uwe-Jan Olthoff"
I you are interested contact me via email: [email protected]

Saddle of Kassai Austria:
http://www.kassai.at/aktuelles/aktuell14.htm

All other horseback archery saddles of Hungary are very uncomfortable. Not good for you and your horse!

Saddle build anyone done this?

Saddle build anyone done this?

Saddles

Germany