Feed-back on batmunkh bows

Claeys Christophe · Post by **Claeys Christophe** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:27 am

Hi,

I'm new on this forum, so first many thanks for the great job you guys have been doing all these years on Asian archery.

I've been shooting asian style recurves (grozer turkish & crimean) for a few years, and frequently visited this forum to dig valuable information.

Now, to the point : I'm in contact with mongolian.archery (batmunkh bows).
Does anybody has a direct feed-back about the performance of his horn & sinew bow ?

I mean how does it shoot, is it stable, is it robust (with all due precautions being respected for storage, stringing & use)

Regards,
Christophe

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:11 pm

I shoot vith this mongol todays product. If you are bow colector, and you haevnt in your colection nothing from mongols- than buy it. But if you hope good target or hunting bow - dont buy. Its long - too heavy (i mean mass) - slow speed not very master crafts job bow.If you haeve lucky your bow can be good balanced , but more of them was very unbalanced angels (arm, syahs..) and you haeve big problem vith every time head treating.

Dont forget - This bow dont represented in any variation historical mongol (Temudzin era) bow ! - its only another chines bows variation and bad shooter...

Claeys Christophe · Post by **Claeys Christophe** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:59 pm

OK Dusan, thanks for this advice.

mongolianarcher · Post by **mongolianarcher** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:32 am

Agreed, the best REAL yuan mongolian bow you can get is from lukas novotny.

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:20 pm

I have a similar bow (35-40lbs only) and its not the best shooter (too heavy). For good perfomance you will have to use one with 60-80lbs or so at draw length at 32-34.
I have recently seen a bow of a much better design (short and tatar-like) from mongolia but I dont know the bowyer personally. And I didnt string and shoot this bow because it was in winter. If you want I can put you in contact with someone who should know him. But in any case you can never know what you buy before you got it (from as far as mongolia).

daryush · Post by **daryush** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:38 pm

I have a Batmunkh bow. I haven't shot it yet (a little too heavy ... although as summer is coming in it has been getting easier to pull). I estimate it will be over 70 - 80 at 31 inches.

I can't comment on how well it shoots, but I can say that it is heavy, and has a very slight twist in one of the limbs. The siyahs taper slightly, but I think they could have been narrowed a little more without sacrificing too much strength.

I like the bow, but it won't be my main shooting bow. I like it because it is authentic and a nice cultural piece to have in my (small) collection. And for $250 it is pretty good, considering it is made of horn and sinew.

Uli: could you post the details for the guy who knows the other bowyer? Is it by any chance Mr Boldbaatar? (http://www.atarn.org/mongolian/dulaan/ltr_jul99.htm).

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Mon May 03, 2010 11:28 pm

This is a comment about Mongolian bows in general.

They never made sense to me until I started shooting their contest. Heavy bow, heavy arrow, distant target. Actually the equipment is well suited to the type of contest.

But this is not a contest of sticking an arrow at objects at various distances, elevations and conditions. It is a one purpose golf club.

I own one of these bows and it is not ideally suited to target archery in general.

When one sees the Mongolians shooting, for instance in Korea, one notices that their bows are of differing qualities. Some are actually sleek, well made, and not heavy. Others are so clumsy as to make the observer embarrassed. I have seen some which would make a better bludgeon than a bow. No Mongolian is shooting one of these overweight bows but are offering it for sale.

Keep in mind that the price of a Mongolian bow is approximately the average yearly per capita income in the country. One would think, given all this that it would be a Stradivarius but I am afraid not. The question is why not?

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Tue May 04, 2010 1:42 am

Well, Jack, I think you answered your own question: their bows are horses for courses.

Here's a little bit of extra history (I mentioned a few years back.) By the 1950s, all ability to make bows in Mongolia had been lost. The Manchus banned all archery among the Mongols, save those enrolled in the Mongolian Banner, who used Beijing-made Manchu bows. Munkhtsetseg's father, Choijelsuren, led a delegation to Beijing in the 1950s and bought a large quantity of bows from Ju Yuan Hao, who made the bows more or less after the fashion that they make them now, save some difference in the siyahs, which had a tear-drop cross-section.

After the Sino-Soviet split in the 1970's, people repaired these old Ju Yuan Hao Mongolian bows. (I believe you yourself own one, Jack.) By the time I first went to Ulaanbaatar, the bows were being made locally; but still following the 1950s Beijing model.

S

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Tue May 04, 2010 3:33 pm

When was archery revived in Mongolia? Was Nadaam a going concern in the 1950s? Was archery reintroduced to Nadaam at that time?

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Wed May 05, 2010 11:51 am

Jack,
There is an early National Geographic article on Mongolia with archery shown. I think it is in the 1960s. I have other books with pictures of archers going back to the 1950s. I don't think shooting died out, but as Stephen wrote, bow making may have stopped for several decades at least. I knew someone who grew up in Manchuria after the Second World War and he remembered seeing Mongols practising archery. I also know someone from Hungary who saw Mongol mounted archers in the 1950s or early 1960s.

Dr Grayson told me that the two walrus ivory tipped arrows (1995-0743B-C) in his collection were from the 1920s or 1930s and presented by some Mongol archers at an Olympic Games. they might have been representing the USSR at the time.

I think that sur shooting has had a continuous uninterrupted history. It is unlikely to be a Manchu contest since many of them are illustrated. Peter Dekker might know if there was a similar Manchu contest.

Some film I saw from Mongolia shows a bow maker using basic techniques that don't seem, to be copies of the Chinese approach though they might be an adaption.

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Sat May 08, 2010 2:47 pm

1.) From personal communication with many mongols I can assure you that neither bowmaking nor shooting ever died out in Mongolia. There has never been a Naadam without archery. Even some people of my age (30y) that I spoke to have experienced bowmaking by relatives, fathers or grandfathers. There are only few bowmakers who do commercial bowmaking in the capital region, and these are indeed of the Manchu type.

2.) What do you think about this bow from Mongolia ? (see pic)
Lenght ntn 49 inches. This is Quing/Manchu style ?

thanks for your comments

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Sat May 08, 2010 7:15 pm

Yes. + big heavy tips... another slow shooter . This tips was big evan if that bow have 140 lb

daryush · Post by **daryush** » Sat May 08, 2010 9:59 pm

It has more reflex than my Batmunkh bow. The tips definitely seem deeper, but I can't tell from the photo if they are wider as well.

Who made it?

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Sat May 08, 2010 11:16 pm

Oversized tips are one problem one sees. Mine came that way, already broken and repaired. They seem to be made from soft wood with the grain violated.

Maybe your bow is good otherwise. You cannot judge a violin from a low rez pic, nor a bow.

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Sun May 09, 2010 9:29 am

The bow seems quite small. Is it from the West of the country? It seems to be a 'khagas' (half horse) bow. Apart from the 'gung' bow of the Khalkhas, there is the Tomor and Khagas, which are also used in local naadam events.

S