Jack Farrell's Subeixi Bow Reconstruction

[ginni]

Bhutanese bows can get 70 pounds (Osmiu have one). The string used by buthanese archers is very thin, max. 2 mm, with a thicker string will be easy to draw a much stronger bow like 100 pounds.

[Bede]

Adam,
Thanks for the explanation. I personally believe from related material that a two or three finger draw is likely.

I must have missed something about the arrows. The ones I saw in Seoul associated with the Scythian-style bow there had nocks with a depth of 1.5 or 2 times their width, I think. Some were deeper. There was doubtless a greater range of sizes present in the museum in Xinjiang. When I was making flight arrows, I made a set that was had nocks that were 3 mm wide and 5.5 mm deep. These I shot through a siper, which requires very light contact with the nock using a thumb draw, and three fingered, without the siper. Since I had fletched them right down to with 8 mm of the nock, three fingered shooting was not that smooth, but it still worked. The two fingered Sasanian draw worked perfectly. They were not a tight fit on the string, but would fall off under their own weight.

[jack farrell]

In fact in the Silk Road museum there were three groups of arrows; Scythian, Hunn and Mongol Empire. The similarity between the arrows was marked. None had deep nocks.

Secondary and Tertiary pinch grips also have fingers on the string but the grip does not seem to be indicated by the nocks on Scythian arrows. This finger protector could have been used that way also; but with a #100 bow?

[Bede]

Jack,
You could be right. Secondary and Tertiary releases both have the tip of the index finger on the string while the middle segment and the thumb steadies the arrow. The index finger could be under more stress than the others.

The fact that some bow reconstructions turn out 100 lb bows does not imply all buried bows were that strong. On the other hand, Tertiary releases are strong enough for a hundred pound bow. They are as strong as a Mediterranean draw and only a little clumsier in the actual release. At least three fingers are on the string at an angle. The have the same effect on paradox as the Mediterranean and in the case of New Guinea, where the Tertiary release is still used, they could be used with bracers on the bow arm.

[Stephen Selby]

In fact in the Silk Road museum there were three groups of arrows; Scythian, Hunn and Mongol Empire. The similarity between the arrows was marked. None had deep nocks.

Second that. I have arrows from Eastern Han and Imperial Mongol periods, and I have handled lots of Saka ones. There's little to choose. Also, I have fistfuls of arrows from the Tibetan people of Qinghai and they are mostly identical in construction to the ancient arrows.

[jack farrell]

It is hard to express the depth of my jealousy but I hope to see all this some day.

This brings up an interesting topic, Stephen. The arrows accompanying the SRMS Scythian arrows have fake looking wood pionts, and the Hunn arrows also look to have once had points, now removed. Can you think of any belief system which would dictate this practice?

[redhawk]

Russian archaeologists are of the opinion that the Hunns didn?t allow the Scythians to make arrows with regular tips.
Second there was the widespreaded belief among our ancestors that the dead ones could not threaten seriously the living ones with somehow poor tips.
Michael

[Stephen Selby]

This brings up an interesting topic, Stephen. The arrows accompanying the SRMS Scythian arrows have fake looking wood pionts, and the Hunn arrows also look to have once had points, now removed. Can you think of any belief system which would dictate this practice?

Only the Mongol period arrows that I have, which are in quiver, have their original points. All the Saka and Xiongnu arrowheads in my possession/that I have seen have been crudely broken off.

The Saka bows I see in burials are usually intact (i.e. not broken on burial); but the Xiongu ones were broken and burned. I understood that burials were sometimes disinterred, the old remains burned.

I have another case of a Xiongnu-style bow for which only a painted core was buried. In the case of another bow of the Mongol imperial period, the bow that was buried seems to be real but unused, without string nocks cut into the siyahs.

I can't really say anything clear about the burial practices now; but the conference I shall attend in Xi'an in September would allow things to be made clear. We should also recall the Xinjiang may have been remote from the heartlands of these different social groups and the burial customs might have been local to Eastern Xinjiang.

I think Serinidia could give us good insights on this question.

[jack farrell]

Adam; My bow is very spongy. I would like to do a f/d chart but the long tip turned over and shed the string at 22", about #65 ? No damage. My thought is if I carefully dried out the bow, it might cooperate. What do you think about putting it in a box with a very low wattage light, like a night light for a week or more?

Alternately, I will sometime this summer go on vacation to the desert/mountains where the humidity is nice and low. But I would like to learn to approximate these conditions at home. Please advise.

I am also happy to report that once laid out and drawn on a board that the lower/smaller limb does bend tolerably. The sinew has a nice whiting color as would be desired along the limbs.

[Adam Karpowicz]

Jack, I think you need to take care of two problems: too much bending in the top limbs (main) and the upper nock fit (minor). In my bow the limbs balance was acceptable, because I deliberately (anticipating this) made the bottom limb more deflexed, which seems to be the case in the old bows as well. I have noticed the second problem too, although not as extreme.

At this point, to balance the limbs, the top limb would now be best made less deflexed to show less bending at full draw. The bottom limb should now be made more deflexed. It is a good time to do it now, because the limbs are well humidified in this weather and will respond well to corrections.

I suggest to warm the top limb whole, gradually flexing the upper parts into more reflex, at he same time letting the warmed deflex part to open a little by itself with no pressure. It can be tempting to try flexing it back as the top part, but I would be rather careful here. It is because the reverse pressure, as such a small radius of the bend combined with the great thickness, may cause delamination of the horn (a lot of stress on the glue lines). So, reflex the mid-top sections with some pressure, but leave the deflex alone. All the time the whole limb is warmed.

Once finished, turn to the bottom limb. Warm it only at the deflexed section and force bend onto a form. The heat is best directed at (and a little beyond towards the tip) the narrowest place. Do not heat or do anything with the rest of the limb, since you want the string follow (if any) to remain as is.

Then leave the bow for a month like that with the former attached, then transfer to a drier place as you like. When strung, keep a good barshak on the top limb all the time. The bow will still be assymetrical as it should, but useable.

The nock fit is another matter. I noticed the horn stubs, if not very curved forward or made longer (as it can be seen on some of the bows), may not keep the string loops secure enough. I suggest to file a groove for the loops on the back side at the base of the stubs. And make the string loops very tight, or tie the string there instead with a timber hitch or something like that.

Adam

[jack farrell]

Thanks Adam, makes sense to me, will try that.

[jack farrell]

Another little update. The short lower limb was warmed and straightened some as advised. I really like the action of the heating pad, good advice Adam. At the same time the curve in the longer upper limb was accentuated in the opposite manner. This has sat in the formers one month.

This gave some time for thought. As I want the bow as good as possible, I decided to add sinew to the weak limb- the long upper limb. It could have been done as the Yanghai and Miran bows were done, by adding the sinew over the spiral binding but it might have looked like a repair so I filed and scraped the long limb clean from tip to grip.

Now I intend to add another layer or two of sinew to strengthen the limb and reenforce the recurve so as to prevent the tip turning again. If this is successful, the spiral layer will be replaced.

So life goes by, glue and sinew are used up. It is now the end of Jul. -j-

[jack farrell]

At this point the Subeixi bow is more unstable than before. The addition of sinew made the cross section even slightly taller. Some sinew was carried over the edges onto the side to prevent this. Maybe it is just too humid here and an adjustment in cross section would be advisable. Also in following the original Yanghai plan exactly I ended up with a bow too strong to shoot.

Now I must decide whether to disassemble my original or start over.

[Orda Khan]

Sorry to hear that Jack, it looked so good.

[Adam Karpowicz]

Jack - any chance you could check the draw weight of the bow as is? (at 28 inches draw). Adding the sinew wraps will help stability a little.

Adam