Saracen Archery

M Hardman · Post by **M Hardman** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:26 pm

Does anybody know where I can get a copy of 'Saracen Archery' by J.D. Latham and W.F. Paterson?

Thanks

Mike

Andrew Hall · Post by **Andrew Hall** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:51 pm

The link does appear to be the same book, although missing the introduction, a couple of chapters, glossary, index etc and probably breaking the copyright.

For a hard copy, AbeBooks (http://www.abebooks.co.uk) have a few listed.

Regards

Andrew
(Note: the link mentioned by Andrew has been deleted as it points to a pirated copy of the book. ATARNO)

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:15 am

Before his death, Prof. Latham left the manuscripts and research material of Saracen Archery with me, with the express wish that I would revise and re-issue it. That would be a challenge at the moment. Also, the manuscript is on paper and needs to be input electronically. I cannot get onto it at the moment; but it should be a longer-term project.

Now that we have active traditional archers in Turkey, I am optimistic that this project could be carried out, and maybe published bilingually in Turkey.

Further discussion welcome.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:59 am

Stephen,
there is already a trilingual text of the Qipchaq version of Taybugha's manuscript published in Turkey. It has a facsimile of the original text, a transliteration of the Qipchaq Turkish into Roman characters, a Modern Turkish translation and an excellent English translation.

This version misses some chapters in the Latham and Paterson translation, but contains much of the shooting instructions.

M Hardman · Post by **M Hardman** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:12 pm

Bede,
is that text still in print? If so where might I aquire it from?

Stephen,
I await a re-print eagerly, I hope that will drive the prize down to a reasonable amount.

Mike

Andrew Hall · Post by **Andrew Hall** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:53 pm

I assume Bede is referring to "A 14th-Century Archery Treatise in Mamluk-Kipchak: Kitab fi ?Ilm an-Nushssab", by Kurtulus ?ztop?u. Istanbul, 2002, ISBN 975-7981-14-1.

This is a translation of a manuscript which is very similar to Tayburga, either based on it or they were both based on common earlier works.

I got my copy from a Turkish book shop on eBay. They have none listed at the moment.

Andrew

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:40 pm

Andrew is correct. That is the book I mean. Taybugha's original book spawned many copies and variants. It was still being quoted in the 19th century.

Taybugha himself probably spoke Qipchaq Turkish as well as Arabic. Latham and Paterson comment that there are colloquialisms and grammatical clumsiness which suggest he was not a native Arabic speaker and sometimes had difficulty with the written form of the language.

He was probably a Turk from the Qipchaq Steppe, imported as a slave through Western Anatolia, which might explain the use of the word Yunani in his full name. Taybugha is a Turkish name. Yunani is a reference to Ionia, the Western shoreline of Anatolia in Classical times. This was a common way for Mamluks to be recruited. They were purchased as boys, trained as soldiers and freed on attaining maturity. Then they served in the military force of their former owner.

I believe it is still available in Turkey. Perhaps Murat or Cem can advise us.

M Hardman · Post by **M Hardman** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:12 pm

http://www.bulak.com.tr/kitapgoster.asp?kitapkod=14865

The book advertised here has the same ISBN that Andrew gave, I assume the language is Turkish but I can't translate it. Does anyone have a good translator so I could understand what it says?

Mike

rednbluearmy · Post by **rednbluearmy** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:25 pm

Mike

It just gives basic details. It does not even give a cost for it - you seem to be able to order it but need an account.

I bought a copy of this from an Ebay seller, along with a few others. I can't find his details for you though.

Neil

Comox Tom · Post by **Comox Tom** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:08 am

I have scanned " Saracen Archery " about 68mb

Diesirae · Post by **Diesirae** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:45 pm

Hi,

I have found it on some german archery forum, as .pdf copy, so I can forward it in a few pieces/chapters on e-mail adress.

Regards

Hyarmendacil · Post by **Hyarmendacil** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:11 am

There's an online copy on this site:

http://www.sacred-archery.com/downloads.htm

but I don't know about the copyright status (whether it's legal to download it or not, or even to put it up publicly like that in the first place).

mongolianarcher · Post by **mongolianarcher** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:39 am

All the urls listed in this topic are not working

Zoran Pavlovic · Post by **Zoran Pavlovic** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:02 am

I have a copy of this book that i get from my friend Alastair 6 years ago. I never thought to scan it due to copyright rules but i copied it to some friends several times.Am very interested in A 14th-Century Archery Treatise in Mamluk-Kipchak: Kitab fi ?Ilm an-Nushshab too.
Best regards,

osmiu · Post by **osmiu** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:36 pm

mongolianarcher ... you have a PM .