Average Han Dynasty Composite-Recurve Bow

TheAzn · Post by **TheAzn** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:30 am

Several months ago, there was this article that caught my eye. It was about the Qum-Darya Bow. What interests me was that it seems to be one of the advanced archery weapon of the time. It is at least 40% larger, had a more pronounced recurve shape and had greater "wings" of horn than the Western counterpart. What is more interesting was that the bow probably belong to Han Dynasty.

However, the Qum-Darya Bow is probably not a representative of the average Han Dynasty Composite-Recurve Bow, since, based on my knowledge, there is only one Qum-Darya found so far. And this is my question: what is the characteristics of the average Han Dynasty Composite-Recurve then? How many laths do they have; was it 4 laths like the Yrzi Bow, or 0 like the Scythian Bow?

Also, the Yrzi and the Scythian Bow were tested to be 60 lbs -80lbs. What was the draw-weight of the average Han Composite-Recurve?

As always, please provide some academic sources
Thank you very much

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:07 am

In the 400-year Han dynasty, China's boundaries extended to an unprecedented extent. Use of cavalry became widespread and the war chariot fell into disuse. Against that background, the bow designs that were current were very diverse. During many phases of the Han Dynasty, interaction with the Xiongnu was intense, consisting both of fights and of alliances and trade in goods.

The evidence of Han bow designs is seen in occasional wall paintings, tomb carvings, and some original bows. The bows from eastern China seem to be wood-wood laminates, with three to five layers and reinforcement of silk binding and lacquer (e.g. the tomb of Dou Wan and Mawangdui).

The Han royal household had origins in Chu and may have retained the use of these simple wood-wood composites for cultural reasons.

Try reading Yang Hong "Weapons in Ancient China" NY 1992. ISBN 1-880132-03-6.

TheAzn · Post by **TheAzn** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:53 am

Stephen Selby wrote:In the 400-year Han dynasty, China's boundaries extended to an unprecedented extent. Use of cavalry became widespread and the war chariot fell into disuse. Against that background, the bow designs that were current were very diverse. During many phases of the Han Dynasty, interaction with the Xiongnu was intense, consisting both of fights and of alliances and trade in goods.

The evidence of Han bow designs is seen in occasional wall paintings, tomb carvings, and some original bows. The bows from eastern China seem to be wood-wood laminates, with three to five layers and reinforcement of silk binding and lacquer (e.g. the tomb of Dou Wan and Mawangdui).

The Han royal household had origins in Chu and may have retained the use of these simple wood-wood composites for cultural reasons.

Try reading Yang Hong "Weapons in Ancient China" NY 1992. ISBN 1-880132-03-6.

Thanks, Stephen.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:32 pm

Also, if you want to know what was being used out on the frontier at the time find Andrew Hall's articles in the Journal of the Society of Archer Antiquaries. He reports on tomb finds of Xinjiang.

Justin Ma · Post by **Justin Ma** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:13 pm

Stephen Selby wrote:The evidence of Han bow designs is seen in occasional wall paintings, tomb carvings, and some original bows. The bows from eastern China seem to be wood-wood laminates, with three to five layers and reinforcement of silk binding and lacquer (e.g. the tomb of Dou Wan and Mawangdui).

What was the estimated draw length of these wood-wood laminates?

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:55 am

This is a near as I can get to asking a Han archer

Justin Ma · Post by **Justin Ma** » Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:17 am

Sweet. Looks like he's holding the bow horizontally, too. I should try that one of these days.

It would be awesome if someone made a reproduction of the wood-wood laminated bows. (I'm glad the diversity of Chinese bow designs means more opportunities for collecting.)

Justin Ma · Post by **Justin Ma** » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:48 am

On a slightly related note... The State of Zhao (403--222 BCE) sat on the border between the Xiongnu and the other Chinese states. Also, King Wuling of Zhao (325--298 BCE) reformed his military to use Xiongnu-style cavalry and dress. So is it fair to say that the people of Zhao mostly likely used Xiongnu-influenced horn bow designs?

(My surname originated in the Zhao kingdom, so I'm particularly interested in the answer, even if it is speculative.)

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:01 am

Justin Ma wrote:Sweet. Looks like he's holding the bow horizontally, too.

No no no... Bow is vertical. There is a hole drilled through the fist of the figure where the original model wooden bow fitted. Here's another...

A particular element of technique that both of these pottery figures demonstrate is the draw-hand held out from the body. Comparing with my own body, it seems that at full draw, the right hand thumb is around 20cm away from the right nipple.

No information on Zhao Wuling's bows. Getting a new set of bows made is a bigger undertaking that tailoring a new set of pants. With that story, I think you have to ignore the detail and get to the central message: chariots out - horseback archery in.

jiao · Post by **jiao** » Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:48 pm

at full draw the right hand thumb is around 20cm away from the right nipple.

ohh my god ......... i shooting like this,it can not use eye aiming and has no tuch the right hand and string, stephen, can you show more pictures form top,front,back ?

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:14 am

jiao wrote:Ccan you show more pictures form top,front,back ?

Only for one statue. Note that both are shooting up in the air. Maybe they are making an 'arrow-shower' and not shooting at flying birds!

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:24 am

What kind of birds would you need to wear armour to shoot?

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:18 am

Bede wrote:What kind of birds would you need to wear armour to shoot?

Cuckoos with sidewinders? Who knows?

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:41 am

So, the birds can shoot back. Nothing was safe in the old days.

TheAzn · Post by **TheAzn** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:10 am

Stephen Selby wrote:The evidence of Han bow designs is seen in occasional wall paintings, tomb carvings, and some original bows. The bows from eastern China seem to be wood-wood laminates, with three to five layers and reinforcement of silk binding and lacquer (e.g. the tomb of Dou Wan and Mawangdui).

The Han royal household had origins in Chu and may have retained the use of these simple wood-wood composites for cultural reasons.

Try reading Yang Hong "Weapons in Ancient China" NY 1992. ISBN 1-880132-03-6.

Just to make sure though. Are you sure that it was a wood-wood composite? I have heard from many people that wood-horn composite was already widepread by this time (Han Dynasty).

[edit] :Oh wait. You have already stated that this was only in Eastern China. Never mind then. So the rest of China (except Southern) had wood-horn composites? How many "lathes" were in those bows?