Yanghai (Scythian) bow weight tested

[WarBow]

I managed to find this documentary from YouTube. Unfortunately, it's in Chinese. There are five episodes from 2 to 6. I don't know what happened to the first first one. In the second episode part 1, you can see the Scythian bow at 6:03. Here are all three parts of the second episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDatwgdQ ... re=related (first part)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMQfqOWR ... re=related (second part)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PObPGfxR ... re=related (third part)

[jkekoni]

I wish I had spent more time in learning chinese.

But anyhow there was video about digging up scythian like bow, then next someone was shooting a Qing style bow, then there was asymmertic scythian like bow. Perhaps the context was told in the speaking...

Some other part perhaps told that the scythian like bows were rolled inside sinew instead of backed with it.

[redhawk]

I guess there were speaking about the wrapping of the bow with sinew.
What do you mean by "rolling inside" ?
Thanks warbow for sharing these you tubes.
Michael

[jkekoni]

The sinew was wrapped around the bow. (=bow was rolled inside sinew). Not fluently said...

[Stephen Selby]

Something worries me.

The soft sand material from which the bow is shown being excavated is not much like the conditions at Yanghai. The ground conditions are quite hard and if the bow was inside the coffin (as usual), then there should not normally be so much sand around it: it would just be in a box with the corpse and other grave offerings.

The form of the bow in the illustration has clear differences from all the forms of Yanghai bows that I have seen (although it is somewhat similar.) I really wonder whether that is a real documentary of the excavation and whether the bow being handed around casually is really an excavated bow rather than a modern reproduction.

The Chinese commentary only talks about the construction being complex and requiring about 1 1/2 years. There is some discussion of the species of wood used for construction (Tamarisk).

I have the lowest regard for the production values of CCTV and I would not rely on what is being related in this documentary without further corroboration.

[WarBow]

The excavation looked like a reproduction for the CCTV documentary.

As a side note, there is too much academic dishonesty in the Mainland that we can only take this documentary with a grain of salt. Take the example of the so-called the discovery of Cao Cao's tomb late last year.

Something worries me.

The soft sand material from which the bow is shown being excavated is not much like the conditions at Yanghai. The ground conditions are quite hard and if the bow was inside the coffin (as usual), then there should not normally be so much sand around it: it would just be in a box with the corpse and other grave offerings.

The form of the bow in the illustration has clear differences from all the forms of Yanghai bows that I have seen (although it is somewhat similar.) I really wonder whether that is a real documentary of the excavation and whether the bow being handed around casually is really an excavated bow rather than a modern reproduction.

The Chinese commentary only talks about the construction being complex and requiring about 1 1/2 years. There is some discussion of the species of wood used for construction (Tamarisk).

I have the lowest regard for the production values of CCTV and I would not rely on what is being related in this documentary without further corroboration.

[Alan Flashing]

Was thinking the same thing Stephen.

[jiao]

i can understand why.......it is a base knowledge of the society in china, maybe anywhere,you must follow lead's opinion,the lead is always right,greet and all succeed cause the lead, without what are ture , if you say no or wrong to the lead you can not got more behoof form lead that your livedepend on your job, non good result in china mode like the straight man bede say "What kind of birds would you need to wear armour to shoot?" to stephen ,you can say maybe the soldier need defend general or emperor when they hunting, assassinator(ass-ass-in-ator?thuggism?) and tiger(i like the tiger it is only big cat not so cowardly it can walk together with me in daytime)


so i need think over stephen' opinion as a literate point of view, maybe we can find real video and picture of dig tomb?whatever, this video bring lots interest how find and dig a man's tomb(archaeology)

[Stephen Selby]

Who is the man speaking at 06:13 here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDatwgdQ ... re=related

S

[jiao]

06:13 is compere do eclaircissement and hard to now what other people saying, i guess maybe serindia is the man on this video and his chinese name call luenguo吕恩国, here is a auto translate about who are he:

Tianshan Web News (liqiao River reports) graduated from Peking University archaeology, 57-year-old this year in archaeology, a researcher at Lu Enguo from participating in the work of thousands of the excavated tomb, outside experts, he asserts that he said that he is an experienced person to dig graves.

Recently, I called the Lu Enguo , ask a question, Lu Enguo profound knowledge I suddenly realized that he should write about.

I contact Lu Enguo in 2004. I'm stationed in the County, and local farmers irrigation land, discover the 3 pieces of pottery, two pieces of pottery, also painted pattern. Back to Urumqi, colleague recommended I consult Lu Enguo , try a call, but very enthusiastic Lu Enguo, he detailed the phone asking the pottery's shape, size, pottery unearthed near the geographical environment, in the end, he told me, because not seen real, not a hasty conclusion. However, through my description, as well as in the past, his grasp of the relevant materials, basic can be concluded that the era of the pottery and uses, in particular, he mentioned the two pieces of pottery is certainly a very precious commodity.

From the phone, I can feel a bit the rigorous work style.

Subsequently, the Xinjiang archaeological another expert in travel, by the way, pulling on the 3 pieces of pottery, research findings and Lu Enguo on the phone said. 3 pieces of pottery are available in the Wei and Jin dynasties, two pieces of pottery in the South of archaeological excavations is extremely rare in the boutique.

In October 2005, I had the privilege to participate in the sponsored by Shanshan "find loulan descent" activities, Lu Enguo are invited to participate in the activities of one of the experts, so, I finally had the opportunity to feel a bit of style.

Archaeologists in Xinjiang, Lu Enguo is to study the history of Xinjiang prehistoric archaeology. However, this does not affect the Lu Enguo , as well as to related historical history of civilization of Central Asia. "Because that history does not exist in isolation. "Lu Enguo said.

In the years of field archaeology, excavations, Lu Enguo almost participated in Xinjiang all comparisons of significant archaeological excavation work on the phenomenon of human skulls perforation, the early form of the tombs in Xinjiang, second funeral prehistoric relics, the phenomenon of rock paintings, ancient nomadic society of economic activities, a lot of research.

In recent years, Lu Enguo has led to a rise in foreign archaeologists sea tomb of vibration, the Ili River Valley section mound tombs and other major archaeological research. Where the sea part of the Ili River Valley, Tomb mounds archaeological excavation of the Tomb, only the current preliminary research results, for the modern man opened the door to the prehistoric nomadic society in Xinjiang, to study Prehistoric Cypriot, Turkish, and even the Wusun, history of civilization of Central Asia work provides many direct historical stratigraphy.

Study of prehistory in Xinjiang, you have to understand the history of civilizations of Central Asia, it is for this reason, Lu Enguo 1993 States successively in Kazakhstan, and other places to visit scholar identity study a number of Central Asian history abroad. This period also witnessed a funny thing: steppe in northern Xinjiang, often in the archaeological excavations unearthed a stone cone, just started Lu Enguo feel that may be used by the ancients. His hands-on experiment, it is not easy to use, he wondered why the ancients used this kind of thing when drilling? obviously, cone with it.

Lu Enguo access to the extensive information, consult the domestic many peer, still no result. In Kazakhstan Qimu Kent Museum, Lu Enguo found the same thing, this stone rods is woman use make-up bar.

Research in the study abroad experience, develop a vision of Brunn countries, have gradually formed the Lu Enguo in the field of prehistoric history of archaeological research.

2003 sea tomb archaeological excavations, and still study is conducted at Lu Enguo in recent years is a wonderful thing.

From 3000 years from top to bottom of the sea tomb unearthed a large number of pottery, wood, and other items are dreams of archaeologists. Sea tomb of ancient Europa is also further evidence of the Lu Enguo study by another research topic: prehistoric times the Europa in Xinjiang, and Russia Comino fortunately Gdansk basin of Leandro Turnovo culture.

[jiao]

some question:
1 , it seemed adam not use Scythian slanting sinew back method,has no parallel sinew back like today we can see,
2, more small size wood on core, the wood is more bulky in the bow
3, the horn also in wood core, i can not know how it make in handel bend area and how it works?

why?

[jack farrell]

Jiao; If i can sidestep your questions for a moment.

Stephen; Don't I recall your saying that you investigated bows from Yanghai which were different and earlier than the ones you published here? I can imagine the full range of designs one would see on Greek vases; ie, with and without hooked recurves, large and small recurves, symmetrical and asymmetrical limbs, sharply bent and smoothly bent limbs and etc.

I think many are familiar with the theme of creating a dig site for reporters. Jeannine Davis Kimball wrote in Women Warriors how she was taken to a dig site near Urumchi and saw workmen shovel fresh dirt off a corpse she had seen in the museum storage just the day before!!!

Nevertheless, the Scythian type bow is interesting and the only one so far with decoration, if one can believe it is so. There was also momentarily shown a Warring states wood bow which was just then portrayed as a fantasy bow in the action scene.

You know if you go to a Chinese antiquities market there will be some smattering of authentic items surrounded by a plethora of modern junk.

[Stephen Selby]

If the bow in your photograph above is indeed a genuine excavated item, in my view in represents a new, intermediate form.

Last month I went through all of the material excavated from Yanghai and moved from the old Turfan Museum to the new one. Some material that I had seen on previous occasions was missing. However, there were bows of a more primitive stage. I had previously been confused by being told in 2005 that there 'previous stage' bows were from later burials. This time I was told that they were earlier (Shang to W. Zhou). Their distinctive feature was a shallower double curve than the Saka form and lacking the inward spiral at the tips. But most significantly, the internal structure was a 'conventional' horn/sinew/wood layered composite that we are all familiar with.

The bow above does not display its internal structure, but it has an elaborate birch bark finish that I have never seen the like of. I have also not seen the yumi-like string nocks. But that said, I can't say it's impossible that it was excavated at Yanghai.

Re Jiao: Lu Enguo is not 'Serindia'. I know
Lu well. However, I don't know what pressure's he is subject to when making a documentary for CCTV.

[Dusan]

Well and what about this (?):

[Adam Karpowicz]

I wonder if the "earlier" bows (if true) have the deflexed sections narrower than wider as the other bows. Are there any close-ups of the bark on the bows? It looks it is a pattern of alternating bands. Too easy to make and common to be authentic, I think.

In any case, it seems the bows with the vertical horn in the core and the reflexed tips could be considered "better" at the time, given the more labour intensive construction and the limbs, which follow the shape of ibex horns.

Adam