string placement on cylindrical ring

[Justin Ma]

For a cylindrical ring, do you place the string as in illustration [A], where the string intersects the opening circle? Or do you place the string on the sloping edge of the ring as in (i.e., not intersecting the opening circle)?

I was looking at pictures of some cylindrical rings where base edge is tapered on both the outside and inside. At first glance it would seem hard to do technique and easier to use technique [A]. By contrast, if you had a ring where the base edge was a direct slope (barely any taper on the inside), technique would make more sense since technique [A] would cut into the string.

[Bede]

Not all cylindrical rings were meant for shooting. Many of the later ones were decorative accessories only. In most cases, the string would be as thick as the available space at the base of the ring.

I have shot with many original rings. I find the best and cleanest releases occur when I cannot feel the string pushing against the inside of the thumb. However, there is a degree of numbness associated with the action of these rings so it is possible that the string is only not pushing against the tendons and is lightly touching the thumb.

[Justin Ma]

Interesting, thanks. Would you be able to post pictures of the cylindrical rings in your collection that you consider good for shooting? In particular, I'm interested in seeing close-up shots of the base edges.

(I'm in the midst of carving a cylindrical ring for a friend, so I want to get this right.)

[Justin Ma]

This is the ring that I've been making...

http://picasaweb.google.com/jtma04/Cyli ... directlink

You'll see in the last photo ( http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Xc ... directlink ) that I flattened the part surrounding the opening just slightly (about 1 mm). The base edge is predominantly a taper.

Does this look reasonable for shooting? (I'm debating whether I should make the flat portion 3 mm thick instead.)

[Bede]

I will get some out and photograph them.

I found a supplier of Acrylic for carving who sells it is cylindrical rods that have the perfect outside diameter for making Qing rings. The colour I bought looks like nephrite.

I suppose you would be interested in measurements and angles too?

[Justin Ma]

Awesome, thanks. If it's not too much trouble, measurements and angles would be great. (Though I'm just trying to get the gist of a good base edge's shape.)

Does the acrylic supplier have a Web site?

[Scott M. Rodell]

Though I shoot in the Manchu style, I "cheat" by using a Ming style thumb ring. The reason is that modern strings are so much thinner than Qing period strings. One period string I have is just over 1/4" thick. So my first question is, are those using the cylindrical ring to shoot, are those shooting with this ring type using a string las thick the period strings?

My second question is about the technique involved. Having not used the cylindrical thumb ring in actual shooting, it seems that one would not be able close the thumb joint as far using the cylindrical ring. How does this effect the technique? How does the index finger wrap around/over the thumb?

I've attached a Qing period painting showing the Manchu draw below. You can see in this painting that the thumb joint is considerably straighter than when using a Ming type thumb ring. But of course there are things about the hand position that look unnatural at best.

[Bede]

The thickness or thinness of the string is not really significant with the correct technique. Very thin rings are not suitable for very thick strings. However, in general you can use any ring with any string.

The flexing of the thumb is used in a different way than with lipped rings. When the thumb is inserted in a cylindrical ring, it is positioned so that the back of the distal knuckle of the thumb is in the centre of the ring. When the thumb is slightly flexed it locks the ring in place. At this point it should be impossible to pull the ring off the thumb without consciously straightening the thumb. The distal section of the thumb is not folded over the end of the ring. The side of the thumb ring is pressed against the side of the middle segment of the middle finger. Then the index finger lightly touches the thumb nail without putting any pressure on it. The other three fingers are clenched tightly as in other styles of shooting.

The painting exaggerates the position of the hand for effect. In reality the hand is held with its back horizontal to a degree dependent on the thickness of the ring. There are several photographs of archers with good form drawing the bow surviving from the Qing. What the artist might be trying to emphasise the fact that the side of the proximal segment of the index finger is touching the arrow to help keep it in place.

The straighter the ring was held with in relation to the arrow, the faster the release becomes. Due to the strength of the hold on the ring, there is no chance of the ring coming off. In fact it is a good indication that the archer has not placed the thumb in the ring correctly, if it flies off with the release.

These rings can be used with the heaviest bows. A red mark can appear on the back of the thumb below the nail towards the knuckle when capillaries close to the surface rupture. This is a cosmetic effect only and it is not associated with any discomfort. The ring should slip off when the thumb is straightened, rather than hang on to the thumb.

Unfortunately, Morse in the late nineteenth century published a picture of a Chinese ring in use with it pushed right back to the base of the thumb. This became a standard illustration to describe the use of thumb rings in general and unfortunately presented an inefficient method of using thumb rings. Stephen Selby's book, Chinese Archery, has contemporary diagrams from the Qing dynasty showing the ring on the thumb.

[Justin Ma]

I'm helping Scott post this image from the 1772 Art Militaire des Chinois that covers Qing military arts of the Yongzhen Period to add some more illustrations to the discussion.

[Bede]

This picture seems to illustrate basically what I was describing, taking into account the limitations of using illustrations. The thumb is semi-straight and the index finger is lightly touching the tip. this is similar to the painting detail reproduced earlier. Part of the ring is pushed against the middle finger. The middle, ring and little fingers are closed and form a fist.

[Peter Dekker]

Hi,

Bede's tip of where to wear the ring really was the key to getting this technique down. I was lucky to have him explain it to me in person when we met in Korea back in 2008. Not getting it right can be a rather painful ordeal, especially with heavier bows.

Here some pics to help explain the technique. I am using an antique ring made of bone here. I find the bone rings quite comfortable to use compared to other, more slippery materials.


This is the place to wear it, on the knuckle and not below it. It requires some trial and error to find out the ideal place to wear it on one's thumb.




The hand as it is held as if drawing the string, seen from various angles.


Pulling the actual bow. You see the finger supports the arrow on the long, unfletched part of the arrow. This is only when using arrows with very long fletchings, which require a specific technique to nock and pull so the feathers won't be disturbed. I'll save that for later.


Seen from the other side.


Seen from the inside. The twisting that some Chinese manuals speak of really starts to make sense when using a ring like this, as it secures the hold considerably.

Lastly, a schematic of the ring. It pretty much speaks for itself, but it might help clear things up for those who haven't seen a Manchu ring up close.


Justin, your ring looks pretty much on the spot from the pictures, great work!

I hope this helps!

-Peter

[Justin Ma]

This is extremely useful, thanks. I'm encouraged to give the cylindrical ring another go (this time, I'll probably make it out of a thick-walled piece of copper plumbing).

Do you ever line the inside with leather in case the ring is a little loose? I remember reading in Stephen's ATARN article about Qinghai archery that the thumb-release archers often used cylindrical rings lined with leather inside. Was this done to ensure a good fit, or was it for cushioning the thumb from the hard ring surface?

[Peter Dekker]

Glad it inspires you. You may want to go back in draw weight a bit to get it down, the ring is not very forgiving when you're learning. It took me a while until I could also draw my heavier bows with it with some confidence.

I have no experience with leather lining, so I couldn't say with any certainty what it was for. It may have helped to protect the hand when the string pushes against the flesh, but this is always the result of a bad technique. Most pressure is exerted through the ring to the inside of the thumb.

It might also be to make a large ring fit, the Qinghai archers are rather poor and might use whatever they can find.

I do have an old bone ring with a hole in it, maybe it was used to attach some sort of lining. But it doesn't seem to have been common for the Manchus to line their rings with something soft.

-Peter

[Bede]

I have a ring with a silver lining inscribed with the owner's name. that is the only tipe of lining I have seen in rings from the Qing Dynasty, but that doesn't mean there weren't other methods used.

In the Tibetan region, is is possible that the ring using technique was different from the Manchu military method. Some rings I have from there have unusual shapes. I think it might be a good area of study. The idea that old rings were modified by using leather linings to help them fit is a good one too.

I have found out something interesting recently. It is winter in Australia and in the colder temperature, the old jade ring I practice with has become more comfortable and I no longer get the red mark below the thumb nail. Obviously in the cold the ring is looser since my thumb is smaller, but I think it might be less blood flow in the surface skin that prevents the red mark.

[jack farrell]

Peter; I think your posted ring is deer antler. There are some really big antlers on Chinese type deer-or elk is it? This material might have religious significance for a Buddhist.