Kaya Korean ?

dragonman · Post by **dragonman** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:28 pm

hello guys, I feel a bit dumb asking this, but I know nothing about 'kaya' bows or any Korean bows for that matter, but I am very interested to learn. What is a kaya bow and a 'hwarang bow' ??? does any one have any clear pics? I have seen the ones earlier in this thread but am unsure what is what and what they are made of?
Also what is a 'biocomposite'??? it sounds like a mixture of natural and moderm material!!! but arent all modern, non-traditional bows made like this with wood and fibre-glass mixture, ( except of course the very latest all man made material,- space age/alien bows????

Orda Khan · Post by **Orda Khan** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:16 pm

Hello Dragonman,
Hwarang and Kaya are just company names producing Korean hornbow replicas. There are bows of various materials for the synthetic versions,namely: bamboo/wood/carbon or maple/wood/carbon (wood being siyah) synthetic birchbark covering.
There is a version that has horn belly and birchbark backing, this is the bow Ginni has.
Kaya advertises a similar construction in bows for 2011.

Biocomposite technology was introduced by Grozer I believe. Wood/glass core with horn belly and 'pressed sinew plate'. I've seen them, don't like them.

dragonman · Post by **dragonman** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:13 pm

Thanks Orda, I am out of touch with the world of modern bow developments. Pressed sinew plates???I wonder how effective they are? cant see the point of using horn on a fibre glass bow, a waste of good horn. Are there any companies making traditional Korean bows out of traditional materials?
I actually shot a Grozner bow for the first time last week, it did look nice but I was suprised how poor its performance was. More like a re-enactment bow I thought

daryush · Post by **daryush** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:30 pm

Dragonman, which Grozer was this?

I have three Grozer bows and am quite happy with their performance. They are: the Scythian base, TRH Mughal, and G5 Hungarian.

I like the look of his Tatar Extra III and Bio Scythian as well.

But I want to save up for a Spitfire and a Saluki horn-sinew bow.

Orda Khan · Post by **Orda Khan** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:16 am

Over the years I've tried quite a few Grozer (Hungarian,Hun,Turkish, C.Tatar, Scythian) in various forms, (base, extra1,2,3, TRH) I've also tried Kassai's base and TRH. While at the time I considered them relatively good and was quite happy with the performance, since using the Hwarang there is no comparison

ginni · Post by **ginni** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:19 pm

Dragonman, the korean master bowyer Do Min Park use for some of his bows modern materials and also bamboo and waterbuffalo horn. This only for his high-end bows.
Any skier know how big difference make the wood as core material for a ski.
Acctualy for few years almost all models used for offpiste skiing are made with wooden core.
With bows is the same. I dont know why and how to explain, but between same bows made by master Park, those with bamboo and hornbelly are the best.
Waste of good horn? Definitely no! As a good friend said, the semihorn bow is the best laminate bow made in Korea at this moment.

I cant wait for Kaya turkish bow. I wonder how will be a short turkish bow made with korean technology.

dragonman · Post by **dragonman** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:24 pm

Whoops!!! maybe I said the wrong thing? Didnt intend to offend, or insult other bowyers and archers. I guess hornbows and natural material bows are expensive and hard to make, so maybe a lot of people shoot these modern versions. I didnt consider this when posting my previous reply. However, now, in response to what I said;
I believe the Grozner I shot was the Scythian version, probably the cheapest version and is about a year old, that is all I know. The person whose bow it is was quite happy with the performance as well, so I obviously said nothing. He doesnt have experience of many bows. But I have shot both first class wood, bamboo and the latest well made fibreglass bows, and in my opinion the Grozner was slow. un-smooth to draw and had hand shock!!!! Its strongest point is its looks. I have shot faster all wood bows and much faster FG bows. If these bows are FG I dont see why they arent faster. Again this is just my opinion.

Ginni, forgive my outspoken views, I have not shot these bows, so should not judge. I am quite biast, I love natural materials and dislike modern bows, I do appreciate though the craftsmanship in all materials and some modern bows are better than others. It is interesting to combine horn!!! What do you mean by 'best laminate bow' fastest? most beautiful??...smoothest??

ginni · Post by **ginni** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:36 pm

Dragonman, there is no offense at all, we just talk about bows.
I found too the Grozer bows being slow, but I tried only solid fiberglass and one biocomposite. Is hard to compare, due the fact i shot heavy bows and my arrow regulary flies in the range of 220 fps. or higher, so usualy any bow is slow for me.
Some guy said that TRH is fast and also Kassai laminate.

However, korean bow is another thing. And between kaya and hwarang, also is a big difference.
But you cannot get this performance for free, learning to shoot is very difficult and can be very frustrating.

daryush · Post by **daryush** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:56 pm

Dragonman - is this the Scythian base for adults? I have one and I find it very good. It resembles a Korean-inspired bow more than a Scythian bow and works similar to one in my opinion. The difference is in the exact tiller. But when I shoot there is no hand shock, and it is smooth until about 31 inches. I can't really explain your bad experience, sorry to hear about it!

I really do like my Hwarang, but at the moment it is too light to compare. 60# compared with my TRH Mughal which is around 85# (at full draw)! I hope to get a heavier Korean sometime, ideally the semi-horn. But I would like a higher brace height too, I think a higher brace height is a little easier to shoot with!

The TRH bow I have is very nice. It's shape isn't very angular, but it feels like pulling on a big rubber band, especially in the last few inches.
I too cannot wait for a Korean-made Turkish bow!

Has anyone so far tried out the new Qing and Mongolian Korean bows by SMG?
(or the Mongolian by YM Jang, for that matter?)

dragonman · Post by **dragonman** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:19 pm

Daryush, I really dont know, I was offered a go of this bow and didnt ask many questions. Next time I will take a lot more interest. Shooting a bow is a vey subjective experience, maybe my small experience with these bows is not enough to make an accurate judgement, and I was biased, so dont take my opinions too serious. I have a chronograph and I will invite my friend to my house and make a more serious comparisson of his Grozner, then I can form a better conclusion. I should learn not to jump to conclusions

Artemiz · Post by **Artemiz** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:19 pm

ginni wrote:Diagram for Wind fighter here:

http://www.aixbow.de/shop/images/diagra ... _-9960.pdf

And for Kaya here:

40 lbs

http://www.aixbow.de/shop/images/diagra ... 112L45.pdf

33 lbs

http://www.aixbow.de/shop/images/diagra ... 112L37.pdf

27 lbs

http://www.aixbow.de/shop/images/diagra ... 112L31.pdf

Wow, thanks for posting this! I have a Kaya @ 55lbs and I thought the 55 lbs would be at full Korean draw. No wonder if feels so much heavier than I expected!

Orda Khan · Post by **Orda Khan** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:07 am

Dragonman, the intention of these Korean bows was to create similarity in both performance and appearance, while at the same time avoiding the difficult procedure of stringing and preparing the bow for use. The synthetic version is an incredible bow and it seems horn version has produced a better bow again.
As much as I admire the true KTB, I would never even contemplate buying one because I would probably only succeed in destroying it. As a fellow Welshman you know the wonderful weather we endure, our climate is not all that hornbow friendly.
The SMG bow with horn belly is the nearest to the real thing that we have without these other issues.
You should check them out if you have a chance, performance wise they are way ahead.
Your observation of Grozer bows is shared by others. Bowyers I've talked with point to 'all that leather' on the limbs. That said, I think he and Kassai and others have a provided a means for archers who are interested in Asiatic bows, to shoot something different ( and without remotgaging the house

) .

WarBow · Post by **WarBow** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:21 am

I had the pleasure of discussing the difference between the KTB and SMG's synthetic-horn laminated bow. Ginni described the SMG being harder to pull than the KTB even though both are at the same rated draw weight of 50#. I would like to confirm this result with fellow ATARN members who have both the SMG bows and KTB. Do you come to the same conclusion? Thank you!

cristian_iepure · Post by **cristian_iepure** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:51 am

I think there's a little misunderstood regarding the technical terms used:

KTB - Kaya Traditional Bow

Orda's true KTB - true Korean Traditional Bow (Hornbow)

@warbow - I also tried the Kaya TB, and the feeling of smoothnes is below SMG, feels stiffer at the same poundage and stacks at 32". The bamboo core of SMG can do the difference regarding the smoothness.
Regarding the construction, the Kaya does not have the carbon core strip that the SMG bow has, the construction pattern is closer to the Wind Fighter bow made in China.

WarBow · Post by **WarBow** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:10 am

Thank you Cristian for the clarification! I also thought the Kaya Traditional Bow (KTB) should stack more than the SMG synthetic-horn laminated bow.

cristian_iepure wrote:I think there's a little misunderstood regarding the technical terms used:

KTB - Kaya Traditional Bow

Orda's true KTB - true Korean Traditional Bow (Hornbow)

@warbow - I also tried the Kaya TB, and the feeling of smoothnes is below SMG, feels stiffer at the same poundage and stacks at 32". The bamboo core of SMG can do the difference regarding the smoothness.
Regarding the construction, the Kaya does not have the carbon core strip that the SMG bow has, the construction pattern is closer to the Wind Fighter bow made in China.

Kaya Korean ?

Different Korean Laminated Bows