Mongol bow and quiver find in Tsagaan Khad

JJ · Post by JJ » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:03 am

In Arch?ologie in Deutschland appears in the current volume an article about a new find of Mongolian Archery Equipment, including a complete bow and a fragmented leather quiver with arrows. C14-dated to the 14th century. The bow which is still braced seems to be in fantastic condition. The shape seems to be asymmetric, the bow has non contact siyahs. The limbs are covered in a yellow material (birch bark ?), the grip is of a darker brown colour.

Here?s a pdf of the note:

http://www.aid-magazin.de/fileadmin/use ... ettern.pdf

look on page 3.

JJ

cristian_iepure · Post by **cristian_iepure** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:24 am

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JJ · Post by JJ » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:33 am

Fixed the link...

Kviljo · Post by **Kviljo** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:43 am

Nice! Lets all travel to the Landesmuseum Bonn next winter, to see the bow and quiver!

JJ, you should contact the museum and have a look at it from a bowyers perspective. - unless they already have the proper experts at hand.

JJ · Post by JJ » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:44 pm

Kviljo, I just contacted the excavator and he says they have already an "expert" for the research, one of the authors of the famous "Reflexbogenbuch". It?s a shame. I asked him to overthink this decision, but I don?t think it will be possible to see the bow other than behind glass

JJ

Kviljo · Post by **Kviljo** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:57 pm

Ahh, too bad. Let's hope the important details are recorded before it is shipped back. I don't know what the law is in Germany, but as they are here in Norway, anyone who want to see an (archaeological) object has the law-given right to do so. Perhaps the bow will be avaliable for study later.

By the way, is the "Reflexbogenbuch" worth having?

JJ · Post by JJ » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:28 pm

There was a thread on the Reflexbogenbuch sometime last year. I think reactions were not to enthusiastic. I looked into it and won?t buy it. There is better information here on Atarn and I personally know more than most of the authors in it. Only if you?re interested in Yumi building, Jaap Koppedrayer wrote about it, this should be good.
JJ

Peter Dekker · Post by **Peter Dekker** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:30 pm

Thanks for posting!

Fantastic, this is easily the best preserved bow of the earlier Mongolian type found so far. The quiver is interesting too, with the three slots for separate arrows that are also to be found on ater Manchu quivers.

The decoration on the quiver is very interesting too. Although probably unrelated, it reminds of Samurai family crests.

As for the bow, it is almost identical to the one shot by Kubilai in this painting:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... heHunt.jpg
(Posted as a link because of its large size.)

The lot is surely worth a trip to Bonn!

-Peter

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:05 am

JJ,
That is a brilliant find.

Shame about the selection of experts! I share your lack of enthusiasm for Reflexbogen, thought the pictures were good. A correction, Jaap wrote the chapter on modern reflex bow making.

Some of the asymmetry of the bow comes from its long life being strung.

There is one miniature painting from Iran which shows a three slit quiver. It was longer than a Manchu quiver and the slit angle was different. It was strongly Mongol and the wearer was in normal Mongol dress from the late period in Iran. that would put the date close to that of the excavation or at least within a hundred years of it.

Andrew Hall · Post by **Andrew Hall** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:12 pm

I assume the exhibition showing the finds is listed here:

http://www.rlmb.lvr.de/ausstellungen/vorschau/

Although the quiver shown is different to the one illustrated in the PDF.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:44 pm

Am I missing something? I do not see any good illustrations of the bow, arrows or quiver(s). The link from Andrew which can be machine translated has virtually no information other than the date.

Has no one from ATARN seen this exhibit who could at least post a drawing or such? And how about a little information on the site etc.

ATARN's info is almost always better than one can find in print. Lets get cracking, guys.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:12 pm

same question...

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:16 pm

I go ! someone else ?

Andrew Hall · Post by **Andrew Hall** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:04 pm

Not information on the finds in the exhibition, but I recently found a detailed description of previous Mongolian grave finds here:
http://hss.ulb.uni-bonn.de/2009/1958/1958.htm

It has some good photos of the 10th C Arcat Del quiver and arrows and some of the bow.
Not sure why the author does not mention the radio-carbon dating of the Omnogov bow and dates it by typology instead.

Back to the Landesmuseum exhibition, are they likely to allow photography in exhibition?

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:10 pm

can't we make an application in the name of ATARN to get some extended access or so ?