New bows from Kaya in 2011

[Storm]

Very interesting bow comparison posted on the Czech forum:

http://translate.google.ro/translate?js ... 6p%3D23247

keep in mind that Korean bows usually have the advertised poundage at around 29 to 30 inches. But the real beauty of these bows is at 32" or so.

I personally don't like it when some use the horse as an excuse for using low poundage bows. My oppinion is that a light bow is actually bad for technique. A stronger bow shows any error in technique, while a light bow hides it. Of course that in the beginning we must learn on lighter bows, but if one shoots a light bow for 10 years it looks to me that he is not really interested in archery. Also, in my oppinion, Kassai is not really a reference point in horse archery. His fast shooting technique is not even possible with hunting tips.

But as Jchocz said, it is a fun sport and it's good that it is growing. One must not forget though, that in order to be a horseback archer, it has to become an archer first.

[jbl]

Storm I think you have it wrong in regards to light bows vs heavy. A light bow will show EVERY error in form because there is not the power in the bow to overcome a bad loose or if the thumb has torqued the string. With a light bow one has to physically release the string where as with a heavy bow the bow will do the work for you. That is one reason why "trick shooters" use higher poundages.

I know many competitive archers who say beware of the guy who can stack arrows with a 25# bow because when he/she shoots a 45# or above he will never miss. If you don't believe me shoot a 25# bow and then shoot your regular bow and tell me which one are you more accurate with and which one you don't get the "right" arrow flight.

By the way thanks for the link there is some intereseting information regarding bow comparasions.

[Angela]

A stronger bow shows any error in technique, while a light bow hides it.

Interestingly, I have experienced the exact opposite the exact opposite over the past few years. If people try to shoot bows with too much poundage (for instance, if they shoot 60# on the ground, have a go at horseback archery and think they can handle that 60# just as easily from a galloping horse), you often see the draw becoming shorter and sloppier, especially on the shorter distances, or when they try to do a parthian. If you shoot sloppily from a strong bow, the arrow will still hit (on short distance). With a lighter bow you have to draw the bow to it's full potential, otherwise your insufficient technique will become very obvious.

I personally don't like it when some use the horse as an excuse for using low poundage bows.

And who would we be making excuses to, any why? The god of 160# warbows? It might be an idea to consider the option that many experienced horseback archers shoot bows around 35# because, after years of experience, they have formed the opinion that these are most efficient for the job. If you also have years of experience in horseback archery and have come to different conclusions, fine. There's always room for more than one opinion. On the other hand, there are plenty of archers around who think draw weight is some kind of macho contest, and I have a feeling that this often gets in the way in these discussions.

One must not forget though, that in order to be a horseback archer, it has to become an archer first.

You have to be BOTH first - an archer and a rider! Both elements are equally important, it's not like shooting from a moving car!

[Angela]

Storm I think you have it wrong in regards to light bows vs heavy. A light bow will show EVERY error in form because there is not the power in the bow to overcome a bad loose or if the thumb has torqued the string. With a light bow one has to physically release the string where as with a heavy bow the bow will do the work for you. That is one reason why "trick shooters" use higher poundages.

Thanks, you put it much better than I did - my thoughts exactly.

[Storm]

I don't want to go into an endless debate on this, it is my oppinion and I am sticking with it. I personally shoot better with lighter poundage. I understand your points and reasons too, though. Just one comment:

If people try to shoot bows with too much poundage ... you often see the draw becoming shorter and sloppier, especially on the shorter distances, or when they try to do a parthian

This is actually what am I referring to. When they use a stronger bow and their draw is shorter or they cannot perform certain shots, the technique is the problem. The stronger bow shows that. Whereas with a lighter bow they are doing everything right. (I am assuming that the bow is not too strong for them to begin with and that they proved on the ground that they can shoot it properly). In the end it's the archer's choice: adapt the bow based on the task or stick with the bow and adapt the technique.

P.S. I am shooting the bow I like and the poundage that makes me fell good when the arrow leaves the string. For me it is a matter of preference and not of showing off.

[Angela]

P.S. I am shooting the bow I like and the poundage that makes me fell good when the arrow leaves the string. For me it is a matter of preference and not of showing off.

And that is exactly what others are doing when they choose to shoot lighter bows from horseback than they would on the ground - that too is a matter of preference and not of "making excuses" . Perhaps we might agree on that.

(I am assuming that the bow is not too strong for them to begin with and that they proved on the ground that they can shoot it properly).

That is the whole point - in my opinion, it just isn't comparable. You can't just put your whole strength into the bow as you can when shooting on the ground. You need freedom of movement and still be relaxed enough to move with your horse without interfering, to be able to react if your horse suddenly shies or stops, to make sure you don't send your horse the wrong signals because your body is under more tension. And you have to be quick, and shoot instinctively: Not because of speed shooting competitions, but because it you wait a two seconds, your target is gone...
That is why, in my opinion, the "if you can shoot if on the ground, you can shoot it from horseback" theory does not apply. You may physically be able to shoot that bow on horseback - but it might well cause limitations otherwise.

P.S. To avoid any misunderstanding: I've noticed that the nominal draw weight of many Korean bows is measured at around 30-32". The average weight I was referring to in my posts is the draw weight at 28". A friend just told me his 35# Wind Fighter measures in at 46# at full draw... (So did my old one, and that's what got me in the bad habit of continually shortening my draw...)

[jchocz]

...And that is exactly what others are doing when they choose to shoot lighter bows from horseback than they would on the ground - that too is a matter of preference and not of "making excuses" . Perhaps we might agree on that.

A little story ...

I want to learn to ride a car. I sit on the computer - automobile driving simulator. I try and learn to "ride" car. Repeat several times each maneuver and position (when the car crashes, when I get a bend in the skid ...). I can say that I can handle a real car? Certainly not!

The real driving car, get a skid during cornering and picking up my stomach. Only then did I know what it looks like the real ride on the car.

It is my preference. I want to get close to reality. Therefore, I use a bow under the historical construction and will be shooting arrows from bamboo. Modern bow and arrows of modern definitely more accurate (but I will miss feeling close to reality). With a bow to 40 lbs would also probably be more accurate in shooting ...


Your preferences are different. I do not criticize it. I just wonder.

[WarBow]

Okay, let's get back to KTB and its variants. We are eagerly awaiting for Thomas and other's "detailed" reviews of the Khan and Dong Yi.

[Angela]

A little story ...

I want to learn to ride a car. I sit on the computer - automobile driving simulator. I try and learn to "ride" car. Repeat several times each maneuver and position (when the car crashes, when I get a bend in the skid ...). I can say that I can handle a real car? Certainly not!

The real driving car, get a skid during cornering and picking up my stomach. Only then did I know what it looks like the real ride on the car.

Yes, that is exactly what happens to some people who think shooting from horseback is just as easy as shooting on the ground, then try it out and very quickly realize there's more to it than that

It is my preferene. I want to get close to reality. Therefore, I use a bow under the historical construction and will be shooting arrows from bamboo. Modern bow and arrows of modern definitely more accurate (but I will miss feeling close to reality).

This thread is about the new Kaya bows. All of these bows contain plenty of modern materials, including your Kaya, and the biocomposites. So what? Doesn't matter to most people in this thread, so why single out horseback archers for your criticism of putative historical incorrectness? If you feel "historically correct" shooting a bow made constructed with plenty of modern materials (you said you haid a Kaya), fine by me. But that seems to me a case of throwing stones in a glass house...

Warbow is right, we have been dragging this thread off topic for too long. So if you still want to discuss this, you should really open a new thread as I suggested earlier. Because I'm still interested in where you get your information concerning "historical correctness" and "reality" of draw weight etc.

[Justin Ma]

Warbow is right, we have been dragging this thread off topic for too long. So if you still want to discuss this, you should really open a new thread as I suggested earlier. Because I'm still interested in where you get your information concerning "historical correctness" and "reality" of draw weight etc.

I have opened a new thread for discussion of draw weights on horseback: http://atarn.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=19413

[PjSingh]

I have not started mounted archery as yet but have been involved in tentpegging and polo.I am an active shooter with rifles and shotgunning and offer a simple comparison.
I own rifles from .22 cal to 500 nitro express double.I love my elephant rifle and love shooting it but it is not practical on a daily basis.
1 the cost of the cartridges
2 the recoil of the rifle (10-15 rounds are my limit)
Same thing i would say with heavy bow compared to a lighter bow.
I am good with the big bore rifle does not mean i shoot it more,I shoot the smaller caliber's more as it is more comfortable and I am still able to shoot the big bore if i want to.
The times when we had to depend on heavy bows are gone,so why not just enjoy the sport and to each their own.

[daryush]

The times when we had to depend on heavy bows are gone,so why not just enjoy the sport and to each their own.

This.

What I do disagree with is people stating as fact (such as Kassai, on a documentary I've seen) that the absolute maximum old time military horse archers would use is 40 lb.

Anyway, there is a new thread for this. I may chip in once there are a couple more posts on there.

[WarBow]

Just out of curiosity, is there a bowyer in South Korea or elsewhere who can make Korean war bow replicas using a mix of modern and natural material in the 120 lbs draw weight range? At what draw length is the 120 lbs peak draw weight measured at? 31"?

[Justin Ma]

Just out of curiosity, is there a bowyer in South Korea or elsewhere who can make Korean war bow replicas using a mix of modern and natural material in the 120 lbs draw weight range? At what draw length is the 120 lbs peak draw weight measured at? 31"?

It may not be the size you're looking for, but I imagine its draw weight is greater than 120# @ 31": http://www.koreanarchery.org/punbb/viewtopic.php?id=70

[WarBow]

Just out of curiosity, is there a bowyer in South Korea or elsewhere who can make Korean war bow replicas using a mix of modern and natural material in the 120 lbs draw weight range? At what draw length is the 120 lbs peak draw weight measured at? 31"?

It may not be the size you're looking for, but I imagine its draw weight is greater than 120# @ 31": http://www.koreanarchery.org/punbb/viewtopic.php?id=70

That's so hilarious!