Original bronze arrowpoints?

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:50 pm

Carrying on what Jack said: three bladed socketed arrowheads of bronze are usually made from moulds sprued at the arrowhead tip. There are Chinese bronze tanged two bladed arrowheads which were sprued from the tang. I have seen archaeological reports with the full casting tree of arrowheads attached to the master sprue by their tangs.

The three bladed heads were often made with a reusable mould that cast two three-bladed heads and one two-bladed head at a time. There was a base with three prongs to form the insides of the sockets. Two side pieces which enclosed a central two-bladed form and a single blade from the each of the three-bladed arrowheads fitted on top of the first piece. There were two end pieces which formed each of the remaining two-bladed sections. The plan view of the layout was something like >- -- -<, each line represents a blade.

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:54 am

Here's one of my trilobe socketed arrowheads. They are very common. Mine has a casting fault.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:58 pm

Here is part of a point collection from a friend along with ideas on collecting/authenticating. These points were brought to my city by a man of Afghanistan and these originated from the area of Mazer e sharif. So there is excellent provenience. I would not suggest buying without knowing the provenience. This is not an area of making fake arrowpoints.

From the upper left is a tanged point of the bronze age, a thousand years older than some of the others. Look for hammer work about the tang. (Petrie) Next, three leaf points common till 600BCE, one tan with some green, one shiny black and one light green with the point missing. Battle field points often have battle damage. Patina should vary greatly. A group of similarly patinated items should sound a caution. The different soil conditions and moisture content help dictate the patina. The light one has metal concretions which would be hard to copy. Black, and brown patinas are found in arid environments.

Next to the light green one is a spurred point with a bent tip. It has been sharpened on a sandstone so many times that the fins have all but disappeared. It one time was similar to the one at the lower left.

Second from the upper right is a square point with long barbs, a kind of octopus noted in Davis-Kimbol. Below and to the right is a triangular three barb version. These are 4-2 C. BCE. Both have mineral concretions.

Last on right has a screw-driver tang common in Central Asia from the 5th C BCE.

This is what I like to see in a collection. Different patinas, hand tool marks, provenience, major and minor works, found in literature.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:08 am

Look guys; Here is another on ebay like the first one we discussed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/collectable-Chinese ... 500wt_1156

Search old arrow, on page 6 there is another and the seller offers to sell "hundreds" of the point you like. (Look at upper right)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-old-bronze- ... #ht_520wt_

Great prices! Really excellent!

Kviljo · Post by **Kviljo** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:52 pm

Hehehe, now that's an interesting turn of the story

I was just starting to believe they were original...

I see another one too that is very similar to mine - the two-barbed one. The patinas are very similar too.

Thanks for the links! Good one

Kviljo · Post by **Kviljo** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:11 pm

Haha, I just found the other exact copy of my original* bronze point

Brilliant find, Jack! Perhaps a good source for replica points for some really cool reproduction arrows.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:56 am

Used for modern reproduction arrows would be the ideal use of these points. One would need to determine the exact provenience of the originals. Many look like fantasy points so one would end up with Lord of the Ring arrows, if you could stand that.

On the second link, next to the right, lower level is an authentic repro of a 1000 BCE point. it would be hard to find the appropriate equipment to use with it.

These would be the best guys to make repro Scythian points. But how to make a deal work?

Kviljo · Post by **Kviljo** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:59 am

I have sent a message to the e-bay user. A report is coming up

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:55 pm

From the Penn; two Israeli points with good provenience. The iron one is earlier than most Scythian bronze ones.

Kviljo · Post by **Kviljo** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:17 pm

Brilliant!

Today I recieved a few points from the source discussed earlier. They are fairly nice. However, I did a destructional test on one of the three-bladed ones, hehe... I put it in a glass of acetone for a few hours, with the result of the point dissolving from the inside out. A similar hole like the one shown on Stephens point appeared, and a glue/bronze powder mixture came out. I would not be surpriced if all were made by the same method.

Perhaps someone is familiar with the manufacturing-process? I don't understand how it could be done, as they seem very solid and looks like any other bronce item on the surface, even when grinded.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:31 am

This old thread seemed like a good place for this post.

This summer I was on the road, out of state and went to a revived famous old flea market looking for ancient archery items and found an antiquities dealer from Afghanistan!!! of all places. His hobby since childhood was looking for artifacts and some years ago he got a metal detector. This is not against the law there. Now from his home base across the border he searches friends and families property. He found an entire city in a cave.

So he sells arrowheads, glass, bronze items, coins and etc. I got to see hundreds of kushan items such as hair ornaments and buckles, small spear points which could be confused with large arrowheads, arrowpoints proper and etc. and some neolithic arrowheads.

Now the downside is that even after buddying up and discussing history for several hours, the prices were prohibitive. He is well versed in all the phases of Afghan history and it was way better than a visit to any museum.

These are the few items I could get; Two bronze points of about 500BC of Luristan culture (Greater Iran) and one tri-lobed iron point of Kushan culture, maybe first centuries AD. The Kushan point is identical to those I saw at Sogdian sites in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Archery gear crosses cultures effortlessly in its time.

Excellent provenience.