Interesting Asiatic Bows in Russian Collections

Ashbow · Post by **Ashbow** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:30 am

Thank you Dusan!

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:04 pm

Dzienkujem. S zadovoleniem.

Kviljo · Post by **Kviljo** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:33 pm

This thread is brilliant.

What indicates that the scythian tip could belong to a two-wood construction? I have a hard time seeing how a compression-strong lath of wood could be bent into the sharp deflex curves while still keeping it's elasticity. It could be done, but is sure makes more sense together with horn and sinew - if the goal was an efficient bow.

Adam Karpowicz · Post by **Adam Karpowicz** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:23 am

To continue on the two curved siyahs: in the first link by Dusan, there is a drawing of these siyahs with an explanation there were horn overlays on the belly side (as in some of the Xinjiang bows). These curved ends, never mind the method of attachmet to the limbs, are quite long and I would not be surprised they belong to hornbows (the rest of the bow did not survive). I think we should look into the original articles before forming an opinion.

see here:
На выгнутые концы лука, чтобы сделать их более прочными и упругими, наклеивались роговые накладки (а). V?IV вв. до н. э. Могильник Верх-Кальджин-2. Плато Укок. Горный Алтай.

and about Tagarsk:
V?III вв. до н. э. Курган саргатской культуры близ пос. Венгерово. Новосибирская область. Раскопки Н. В. Полосьмак и Д. Г. Савинова. МА ИАЭТ СО РАН

Рис. 91. Этот лук скифского типа ассиметричен. Длина 86,2 см. Пропорции ?рогов? 1:1,2. Его круто загнутые концы имеют такое же устройство, как у фрагмента лука из курганов саргатской культуры близ пос. Венгерово. Находка в Yarhu (Турфан). Автономный р-н Внутренняя Монголия в Северном Китае. - this is about the drawing of two bows on the same picture - which is from Xinjang (Turfan).

Adam

redhawk · Post by **redhawk** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:23 am

The olon kurin gol Scythian bow finding is a wooden type of Scythian bow, it is not a two- wood lam, but a bow finally made of 12- 14 slats of woods. A look at the cross- section of the sharp recurved tips is telling us the tips have been made of 2 slats of wood, enforced by a horn- plate at the belly.
These horn- plates have been excavated, there is not any proof of longer horn- plates or slats, so these bows are definitely multi- wood lams. The horn- plates have been grooved for to serve as a string- guide as well.
Michael

Adam Karpowicz · Post by **Adam Karpowicz** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:06 am

Michael, unless you have different information, according to a picture of the Olon Kurin bow I got from Erhardt, the tips were not spliced in as in this one (Tagarsk/Vengerovo) and were not nearly as curved and as long. The Olon Kurin looked more like on the other picture (Old Andronievs culture acc. to Dusan), which was much older that Tagarsk.

Adam

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:18 pm

In one of Dusan's links about Pazarak; "The bows of the Altai model were cemented of four layers of tree. For the best cohesion the places of gluing were covered with slanting incisions. Then finished article was wound by tendons and pasted over by white part of birch bark."

We have seen this tapered scarf joinery in the Yanghai bows as well as sinew wrapping and birch bark covering.

It would seem natural that some Scythian type bows would have been made without horn. That the convoluted shape would appear unsuited for a two wood bow would not be a good argument as the bow shape is not well suited for other materials as well.

I can accept this explanation for some type of Scythian bows, and Michael's earlier Olin Kurin bow as being authentic. Since all these bows are found in grave contexts, we still do not know if any were grave goods only.

The beauty of the Yanghai bows is that they were from common graves rather than Royal burials and contain common grave goods.