Turkish Bows

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:27 pm

From the Arsenal Museum in Vienna; from the siege of Vienna.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:29 pm

Since I have available space left. Same source.

Kviljo · Post by **Kviljo** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:39 pm

Is that a string bridge on the left bow?

Would you say that these bows were about 42 inches long?

The very short grips of these are quite interesting. It's not common to see modern made turkish bows with such short grips. I wonder if it partly is a visual effect of the belly being rounder in the originals.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:24 am

These quivers usually average around 45 cm long. That might help in scaling the bows. The nocks on the arrows are interesting since they seem to be short-lipped and built for thick strings.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:18 am

Many of these bows had bridges or string pads as one might say. I will leave analysis to Adam since this is his bailiwick. I think all 4 are upside down.

Adam Karpowicz · Post by **Adam Karpowicz** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:15 am

Very good observation about the short grip - this will reduce stack in a short bow and lengthen the working limb for less stress.

It seems some of these bows had bridges added on as needed for stability. The bow with bridges has the kasans below the tips somewhat rounded, which (with no bridges) caused the string to contact the kasan there making the bow prone to twisting. I would expect the bow could need the bridges for stability.

Many of the bows from the border regions and from the later times (17th c.) look like hybrids between the typical Crim-Tatar and Turkish - shorter than CT, and with bridges, but with no (or minimal) grip set back. Many bows of this style could be made by the Turkish bowyers in the major centers, such as Istanbul, which may explain the hybrid construction. The bridges could offer not only better stability, but also make the war bows more durable by adding the stronger horn in the critical areas of string impact. These bows had horn inserts in the tips as well.

Adam

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:35 am

Wiena is 130 km from me... Some details pics if you liked.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:01 am

Gokmen · Post by **Gokmen** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:27 am

Great pictures, thanks.
I am planning a trip to Vienna myself, could you name me the places/museums etc, which show arms/armour/flags etc of the 2 sieges?
thanks

Second point is, for example in the Dresden Tuerckencammer collection you see similar bows, which seem to be Tatar/Ottoman hybrids.

If you look at Ottoman miniatures, you often see small bows, which have similar kasan/bash angles, some are so curved, they look like Scythian bows and the kasans almost meet together at full draw. Of course miniatures are a bit distorted and sometimes out of proportion, but still could you say that these bows are similar to the ones we were talking about?

Furthermore, what I find interesting is that most of the Turkish bows made today dont resemble the bows in the old miniatures.
I have seen an old picture of Adam with such a small dark coloured bow with similar angles, maybe he can give us more information about it.
thanks

Gokmen

daryush · Post by **daryush** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:05 pm

Gokmen, do you mean this one:

Gokmen · Post by **Gokmen** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:23 pm

Yes, exactly this one, thank you.
You see the kasan/bash angle is smaller than the usual Turkish bows, there is string bridges and the overall length and shape is similar to the ones in the miniatures.

That means Adam must have experimented with this type also.
I am curious to know the characteristics of such a bow. It must have phenomenal cast. And the advantages for a horsearcher are obvious.

cheers

Gokmen

Adam Karpowicz · Post by **Adam Karpowicz** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:03 am

The advantage of the forward tips (less tip/kasan angle) is that the string will be slightly longer, therefore the bow will begin stacking a little later, plus the moment when the string lifts-off is a little later as well (slightly more enrgy stored). The longer string means the bow is under-drawn for the same mass and the performance is not better. This is assuming all other parts of the bows are exatly the same.

I have another two of those - identical, except the black one is about 80lb, the unfinished 95-100lb. I should have made the grips smaler though for less stack.

Adam

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:16 pm

Hi Gokmen,

the bows on Dusans pictures you too find in "Old ATARNet archives vol. 1 / vol. 2".

Peter

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:19 pm

Sorry,

like Jack wrote, you can see them in "Arsenal"; a famous military museum in Vienna.

Peter

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:33 am

Another adress in Vienna for ottomans bows, arrows and quivers: Kunsthistorisches Museum, section: Jagd- und R?stkammer