Choson Dynasty Hornbow in Museum

JJ · Post by JJ » Tue May 10, 2011 7:34 pm

Last weekend I visited an archery museum in France and had the possibility to see and handle an obviously quite old Korean horn bow.

The bow is of the same type as the so-called bow of King T?aejo, the founder of Choson dynasty, who lived in the end of 14th century. There are several bows of this type in different museums in Korea, but I have not yet been able to see any of these in original. I don?believe that this bow is so old, I can rather imagine that it is perhaps 150 years. It is in a remarkably good condition.

The bow is ca. 133cm long, 126 cm NTN. The narrow handle is wound with a kind of cherry bark. The bending section is max. 4,2 cm wide while 12 mm thick and lenticular in cross section. The horn extends to a point 15,5 cm before the "knee", on the back there is a prominent ridge running about 26 cm onto the limb. Siyah and the "kasan" area seem to be made from one piece of reddish wood. I saw no evidence for a splice into the limbs, so probably the whole core is made from one piece of wood. Has anybody an idea what kind of wood it could be? What looks like lighter sapwood on the sides is a very thin layer of sinew there. The back sinew is not covered.

The nock has a distinguished shape completely different from the modern types of Korean horn bows. The string notch is covered with dyed Ray skin in a way similar as in turkish bows.

Best regards, JJ

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Tue May 10, 2011 11:46 pm

JJ; Does the museum not have any information where the bow came to them from?

I would suspect Mulberry would turn that color with age.

A Josen quiver stuffed with Mughal arrows!

jkekoni · Post by **jkekoni** » Wed May 11, 2011 7:40 am

Is the yellow wood the red wood cover by sinew+glue?

Wikipedia:
Joseon (July 1392 ? October 1897) (also Chosŏn, Choson, Chosun), was a Korean sovereign state[3] founded by Taejo Yi Seong-gye that lasted for approximately five centuries.

JJ · Post by JJ » Wed May 11, 2011 9:23 am

jkekoni, yes that?s it. First I thought it was sapwood but then I saw a very thin layer of sinew and glue, which probably stopped the underlying wood from darkening.

Jack, the museum staff there could give me no more information on the origin of the bow. It comes from an 19th century private collection. It is labelled as Old Kirghis Bow and quiver, which is certainly not true

)

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Wed May 11, 2011 10:05 am

Thanks for the great pictures !

Where is that museum (I live close to France) ?

just to be sure: there is no horn in this bow (and no signs that there was some before) ?

JJ · Post by JJ » Wed May 11, 2011 11:15 am

Uli, it?s the Mus?e de l?archerie in Crepy en Valois, north of Paris.

Your question concerning horn in the bow; please look at picture 2 and read the text under it again

)

JJ

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Wed May 11, 2011 5:20 pm

alright silly question

if you bring it to FR we can do a CT/MRI scan.. but well the construction seems to be clear anyways

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Fri May 13, 2011 5:50 am

Very thank you JJ! I know this bow from pics long time , and some time ago i use him like good example in discusion about "kasans" and ridge in old Korean bows . But your pics and measurments is very interesting !

This is what i dream somtime you guys who visit every year Korean WTAF can make-seriouz pics and realy claer measurments from old korean bows in Korean museums...

JJ · Post by JJ » Fri May 13, 2011 2:53 pm

Dusan, I?m happy that you enjoy

I too was excited about this bow, I think they are quite rare. In Korea I never saw a bow like this in a museum; they are probably kept in some special places I have yet to find...

JJ

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Fri May 13, 2011 4:26 pm

JJ; There are old Military bows in the Military Museum in Seoul. Use connections there to meet the director and he will be happy to make arrangements. They have a bookshop with illustrations of everything in the displays. I am not sure it is open to the public because it is on a military post.

jbl · Post by **jbl** » Fri May 13, 2011 5:45 pm

Thank you for posting the pictures. You can really see how these bows, the Turkish, and Tatar bows were all "cousins" of each other. I very good representation of the evolution of these bows.

Thank you again for pictures and measurements.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Fri May 13, 2011 8:51 pm

Well, Jack. If you know where, and how...- its must be your special secret sevice Job for all us

Be brave and do it , please

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Fri May 13, 2011 9:30 pm

By my good luck; the director of this museum was assigned to be the discussant on my first paper to the WTAF. He asked if I wanted to see the museum and I brought two friends. We were allowed to photograph and then they gave us all the museum catalog. In there the bows are all given an overall measurement only. (We did not touch the bows which were in cases.)

Dusan; you have already posted these pictures on one post or another. They are on the internet. Someone copied the pics and put them online. There are not so many.

What I can say is that the majority of Korean war bows are in the 165 cm size and target bows are in the 126 cm size. The Crepy bow is 1.2 cm wider, at 4.2 cm, than the only old Korean target hornbow which I have to measure, at 3 cm; the Crepy bow at 12mm thick and mine at 9. If mine is about 50# then the Crepy bow would be massive. Maybe someone can explain the math.

If someone posts a Korean war bow, I will look up the size. His protocol excludes my contacting the director personally.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:03 pm

If you mean these pics from Korean museum site , yes - these are known .But not very high quality and measurments are only nececery data- long . I dream about more precise facts, Jack.
If all war bows is so long like you say_ somthing is wrong in Korean museums

This bow from France is good example of realy good performance bows ...

JJ · Post by JJ » Sat May 14, 2011 7:52 am

Jack, I was once in the Military museum, but I can?t remember having seen similar bows. Do you have pictures of these?

It was not allowed to photograph so maybe my memory fails... I remember having seen enormous hornbows but these were supposed to be ceremonial bows for some ritual performed by the king. I think Thomas Duvernay has got a replica of one of these bows made by his bowmaker.

There were some old Korean target bows from the end of the 19th and beginning 20th century, but they were of the same type used today except greater setback and "cobra-head" style siyahs.

JJ