Bows, Arrows in the "H?fische Jagd- und R?stkammer"

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:35 am

Dear all,

last weekend the "Europian Championship of Kyudo" was held in Vienna. A woman from Russia won the Individual Taikai, Sweden the National Cup.

On Sunday i took the chance to visit the "H?fische Jagd- und R?stkammer" in the "Nationalbibliothek". Here are some pictures.

Enjoy it!

First: bow with white horn

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:40 am

Second: a really giant crabbow and "normal" turkish

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:44 am

Third: the most beautiful arrows i have ever seen!

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:55 am

And fourth: this bow i can?t believe it was ever shot. Kasan eye i estimate 20mm thick, middle of limb about 50mm wide and the tips are very tender

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:58 am

............

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:21 am

Look at the size of those bows! The so called crab bow actually looks like a Persian bow to me. The red and blue arrows are the ones Dusan has been posting but now we see more, the points for instance.

Good work and thanks for posting.

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:39 am

thanks for the nice pics !
do you have more info concerning the crimean tatar bow ?
(lenghth, origin, age ?)

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:58 pm

Jack, the crab is a giant, the limbwidth is 9 - 10cm.

The arrows, i couldn?t catch the metal-effect of the red area with my camera, but its redmetallic, its an eye-catcher and in the same cabinet as the fourth bow. this two items look like one set.

Uli, length is about 150cm (forgot to measure it

), on the discribtion: turkish, about 1600. A friend of, mine who was with me and a specialist in letters, told me there is an "Arab inscription" on it.

But there are string bridges, horn inserts in the tips and the grip is repositioned, typical Krim-Tatar features. Too, it looks very strong, limb about 20mm thick!

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:47 am

I agree with Jack, the crab bow is likely to be a Persian bow. The width of the limbs and the shape of the ends of the ears are more Persian than Indian. The degree of built in angle in the transition between the ear and the limb vary so it is not surprising to see one close to the crab bow end of the scale.

Photos like this are very helpful for people studying archery. Is there an illustrated catalogue of the collection for sale?

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:25 am

Bede,

I had only a short look in the exhibition-cataloque, but most illustrations where about armours and fireweapons. Too there must be much more bows in the archive than in the exhibition, even one with 4 tips. Micha Wolf, an austrian bowmaker, has good connections to this museum. Perhaps he can help you: [email protected]

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:40 am

Thanks,
I will contact Herr Wolf.

Adam Karpowicz · Post by **Adam Karpowicz** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:20 am

I agree this looks like a Persian bow.

The bow is not build at all like the Indian crab bow. Please look at the transition betw. the kasan and sal. Here (an in my opinion in all Persian bows) the kasan ridge = the rigid section ends before where the limb bends. It means the curved section is flexing when the bow is strung and drawn. It also means the limbs at this section can be adjusted by heat for a desired degree of curvature as well. In effect, the bow is built and will look like the Turkish bow in profile, with the limbs a little longer (and of course wider etc).

In the Indian crab bows the transition is rigid, because the ridged section goes down beyond the curve. It means the curve can not open in the draw, or be adjusted, and the bow looks very different when strung and drawn.

I wonder if anyone have ever seen a "certified" Persian bow built like the crab bow? The division may not be so sharp for obvious teritorial reasons, but still, the flexed bend points to the Persian origin, while the stiff bend to the Indian.

Adam

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:37 pm

Dear all,

sorry, it was not my intend to mislead.

Justin Ma · Post by **Justin Ma** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:44 pm

This is very informative. I wasn't aware of what caused the Turkish/Persian/Crab bows to have different shapes, so I'll certainly look out for that in any subsequent pictures I see.

Adam Karpowicz wrote:The bow is not build at all like the Indian crab bow. Please look at the transition betw. the kasan and sal. Here (an in my opinion in all Persian bows) the kasan ridge = the rigid section ends before where the limb bends. It means the curved section is flexing when the bow is strung and drawn. It also means the limbs at this section can be adjusted by heat for a desired degree of curvature as well. In effect, the bow is built and will look like the Turkish bow in profile, with the limbs a little longer (and of course wider etc).

In the Indian crab bows the transition is rigid, because the ridged section goes down beyond the curve. It means the curve can not open in the draw, or be adjusted, and the bow looks very different when strung and drawn.

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:19 pm

Darn, this third bow really is a beast

you suggest it's never been shot
but we'll never know -
unless there is some sign of use
(anyone knows a sign of stringing/shooting ?)
(maybe cracks in the laquer ?)

But if this was shot - could reach the often quoted 900 yards

..nothing is more fascinating than the mystery