Greetings from Iran

Zarasp · Post by **Zarasp** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:28 pm

Hi,

I am Zarasp Mozaffarinia, from Iran,

I am very glad to find this place so i can connect to traditional archers worldwide,

I come from a family of nomad horsemen & hunters, and i hope to be able to revive some of our traditions in archery, i hope to learn from / cooperate with archers here.

also for the 1st time we are hoping to teach the Persian horseback archery in Iran, starting a horseback archery school in Norooz abad complex in Tehran,

with over 200 horses in the complex, race track , polo field & arena etc... we have built a good track for horseback archery,

our biggest problem (apart from ex-race horses) is EQUIPMENT & EXPERTISE,

at the moment we only have terrible (junior max#40) bows & expensive carbon arrows , we are eager to change that,so please dont hesitate to suggest help.

All the best.
Zarasp.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:46 pm

Zarasp; Warmest of welcomes to our forum. Beginning archers and horse archers are well served by light draw bows. I am sure that you will find advice here about horse archery.

Does anybody know of an English language book on the subject by which Zarasp can get started?

You might also travel to a venue in Europe or Turkey, etc.

Zarasp · Post by **Zarasp** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:31 pm

thank you for the welcome,

i like to base our school of horseback archery to what i have seen first hand from Persian horseback hunters of east of Iran (one of the very last of them, my own grandfather),

1.according to their teachings students need very accurate bows to learn to shoot, maybe more accurate than an experienced shooter, unfortunately our current bows fail required accuracy , power , weight & length, which is our main problem, i am hoping to find shorter, heavier, more accurate bows for the school.

2.the other issue is that we cannot find 4 feather arrows, they shot ONLY with 4 feather arrows, i hope to find 4 feather arrows to buy

3.technique: my grandfather tought me 2 techniques, for back tirkash (arrow case) , and for left belt tirkash, i need to reestablish & correct these techniques with help of experienced archers here.

after these 3 steps we can hope to introduce the Persian archery (as we know it) to the world.

i hope you help us in these steps.

all the best
Zarasp.

Ashbow · Post by **Ashbow** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:55 pm

Warmest greetings Zarasp!

It apperas that you have a lot of interesting information to share, as you had the great privilage to learn the old traditions form your grandfather.

As to the point 1. Although some bows are more accurate than others, the accuracy is as much a matter of the archer as it's of the bow and the arrow.
Maybe that deviates from the teachings you got, but I believe it will take you some time to find some bows that will match to your tradition. For the start it's good to learn with any bows you can have, by the time you have progressed with your techinque, I believe you'll find a source of some bows that suit your needs. Also by studying and practicing you will get more knowledge of what bows you really need.

As to the 4 feathered arrows I suggest you buy your arrow components instead and asemble your own arrows. It would be best to invest in a device called "fletching jig", which helps you to glue the feathers on the shaft, you can get some cheaper plastic models, that should work the same as the more expansive metal ones. Make sure you get one that has the setting for glueing 4 feathers, as some are set to glue only 3.
The traditional method would be to glue the fethears by hand, but this is best reserved for the better show-off arrows.

Wish you the very best!

Zarasp · Post by **Zarasp** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:54 pm

thank you fro the welcome ashbow,

1.you are absolutely right about the accuracy being both of Archer & Bow, let me make clear/correct my statement,

in our Persian archery no matter how little the strength, a student bow needs to be very CONSISTENT in shooting, so the student will learn to be ACCURATE slowly.

so accuracy comes from working with a bow of good consistency.

we need to find more consistent bows for the school.

2.i think assembling arrows is a wonderful idea, THANK YOU! can it work with wooden arrows too? i hope we can find a good shaft,tip, feather combination,

after i read your post, i searched for it & found it in one shop, Korean made, i will check it with hope that it has 4 arrow setting!

All the best.
Zarasp.

Ashbow · Post by **Ashbow** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:35 pm

Hopefully some experienced horseback archers will help you out regarding what sort of bows would suit your needs.

You should be able to get any type of arrow shafting you like, including wood and bamboo, quality wooden shafts are usually easier to get than bamboo though.

Justin Ma · Post by **Justin Ma** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:41 pm

Good luck with your upcoming projects, Zarasp.

Can you provide any drawings, sketches or photographs of the kinds bows your family used? I'm very curious about the shape.

Zarasp · Post by **Zarasp** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:15 pm

at the moment i cannot post pictures , since i currently live in Tehran, but i know the shapes well, & i have measurements of strings arrows etc.

unfortunately i have not found any similar bows in my few days on the internet, even the ones called indopersian , persian or even Sassanid & are available for sale are very different from what i know,

one of the kind members here sent me a link after we talked about these bows, this link shows a very very similar bow to some of our bows , (although it didnt mention Bone as a part of the bow) & the arrows are almost Identical to what i know to be a Persian or Iranian arrow.

there was also a picture that showed an almost identical bow,in this forum, amazingly, a bow from Vienna, in europe.

the link:
http://www.atarn.org/letters/letter_sum ... tm#ind_per

the bow from vienna.
http://atarn.net/phpBB2/files/krabbe_173.jpg

Ashbow · Post by **Ashbow** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:56 pm

Zarasp, I think many will appreciate your contribution of the frist hand knowledge about your archery traditions. It's wonderful to have you here.

Many Eastern composite bows are stored in European museums, among the artifacts there is plenty of archery tackle present that was captured after the defeat of the Ottoman army at Vienna in the 17th century.

Amarutu · Post by **Amarutu** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:39 pm

hi zarasp - welcome!

great to hear of your goal in archery!

looking at your suggested bows i thought of this one: http://nomadbows.com/stock/images/laminalt/P1100385.JPG coming closer to - than the indopersian or persian bow. (it's a new indian model from grozer) - i hope it is what you are looking for!

in case of accuracy you might get a success by adding metal (lead or something else heavy) below the grip covering leather. maybe such tricks can help you out. if a little diy is ok. if you like this idea, maybe this tutorial i found in a german archery-forum helps you a bit - albeit it's all-german language. (upper link - 7mb data http://rsengineering.de/How-to/how-to.html)

best wishes from germany!

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:35 am

At the moment, I am working with Manouchehr Khorasani on some Safavid manuals on archery. Three will be published in translation in his book on on Persian martial arts. I cannot preview this information yet because it is in a prepublication phase. However, I can make some comments from my other experience.

Four fletched arrows were know in the Middle East and India. Their advantages in close shooting and rapid shooting are easily seen. The greater drag of four feathers straightens out the arrow flight much more quickly. Much horse archery practice was done from close range. In China, the Manchus used increasingly bigger feathers over time to make sure their arrows were going straight in military tests. Another advantage of four fletches is that you do not have to worry which way up the arrow is when you nock it. This increases the speed at which you can shoot and means that nocking on horseback requires less attention. Both these features can be useful in hunting too since the range is often short and the warning that a target will appear is very brief.

Many of the old broadheads I have from Northern India have four feathers (or the traces of them. So do some of the more robust armour-piercing arrows.

I strongly encourage you to follow on with your interest. Any traditions you know of will be of great interest to researchers and other archers.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:42 am

Regarding modern bows you can buy that would be suitable for practising Iranian styles of archery of the last few hundred years, I suggest something like a Crimean Tatar bow. They have a similar profile and length and a long draw length. The original bows were not made the same way, but once converted to modern materials I do not think there is much difference.

The Iranians drew until the nock was near the lobe of the ear in the Safavid and Qajar periods so a bow with a medium to long draw is needed. In earlier periods, particularly the Sasanian, the draw was longer.

hcspng · Post by **hcspng** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:35 pm

Dear Zarasp

I'm very glad to hearing from another people in Iran who is interested in traditional archery.

واقعا خوشحال شدم ما با شما 3 نفر میشویم که فعلا در ایران در این حوزه فعالیت میکنند امیدوارم به زودی بتونیم کمانداری خودمان را احیا کنیم.

Zarasp · Post by **Zarasp** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:57 pm

Ashbow wrote:
Many Eastern composite bows are stored in European museums.

OH, i re-read the topic, my 1st internet forum lesson: not to jump to conclusions, read posts. many people explained also that it was a Persian bow,

& thanx for the welcome

Amarutu wrote: adding metal below the grip

thank you! well i think i am going to try it , our bows are too light for what i know,

Bede

you are the 1st person to say the same exact things i have heard my grandfather say about the 4 feather arrow & really it is wonderful for me,

it seems to me that you have very good knowledge , i hope to use it to revive my traditions, because Honestly if i dont do something these traditions will die.

THanks alot

Bede wrote:
The Iranians drew until the nock was near the lobe of the ear in the Safavid and Qajar periods so a bow with a medium to long draw is needed. In earlier periods, particularly the Sasanian, the draw was longer.

from what i know: in TIRBARAN & KAMAR tirkash methods, (the english translations Arrow rain & belt quiver), we draw differently, but the main principle that i was thought was: PULL UNTIL THE ARROW KISSES YOUR FINGERTIP, which means a light touch of the arrow tip on the extended forefinger holding the bow!

I will soon open up some topics on these methods, 4 feather arrows & what my friend here called Sassanian draw.

THANKS!

hscpng wrote: ....from Iran....

hey, very glad to see you here, you should really come to Noroozabad and visit us. i am there everyday.

once again thanks everyone for the warm welcomes, i am very lucky to be able to learn so easily from so far away.

Zarasp.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:03 am

Zarasp,
The use of the arrow head to indicate maximum draw is in the old books. However, it is just one end of the arrow. The arrow length then determines where the nock of the arrow will be. As I wrote, in the Qajar and Safavi periods, the ear was the terminus for the hand and hence the nock of the arrow, but there were variations. Isfahanis were said to draw to the eyebrow.

Regarding the Sasanian draw, do you want me to post a picture of the kind of tab I use for that? They are easy to make and save your fingers.

Greetings from Iran

Greetings from Iran

Hello