Greetings from Iran

Zarasp · Post by **Zarasp** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:05 pm

Bede wrote:Zarasp,
The use of the arrow head to indicate maximum draw is in the old books. However, it is just one end of the arrow. The arrow length then determines where the nock of the arrow will be. As I wrote, in the Qajar and Safavi periods, the ear was the terminus for the hand and hence the nock of the arrow, but there were variations. Isfahanis were said to draw to the eyebrow.

Regarding the Sasanian draw, do you want me to post a picture of the kind of tab I use for that? They are easy to make and save your fingers.

WOW so nice, its like looking at a Sassanid Plate,

can you please post some more photos of this draw,(perhaps we should open a new Topic), i would love to discuss this technique, put some ancient photos up & hopefully show the version of this draw, that my Grandfather taught me, which looks exactly the same from far....

Gokmen · Post by **Gokmen** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:53 am

Hi Zarasp

glad to have you among us. Ottoman and Iranian archery/horsearchery are very close together compared to other styles. You might speak of 'brother' states and brother styles with a touch of sweet competition. We read for example in our literature that it was common that a champion archer pehlivan from Iran came to Istanbul to challenge archers etc. That's how they had their international championships in the old days.

I hope you will provide us with information that will help us understand the Iranian style but also our Ottoman style better.

Manoucher and Bede are preparing smth already but in the meantime can you give us a quick overview over Iranian (historic) literature about archery and horsearchery?

btw do you train with Ahmed and Mehdi or is this a different new school?

thanks and many greetings

Gokmen

Zarasp · Post by **Zarasp** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:26 pm

Hi Gokmen,

thanx for the welcome,
as you may know we have a long history of archery in this land, going back thousands of years, from Achaemaneid seals & coins which i am just learning about to a precious manuscript on archery from Saffavid time, , which i am trying to get my hands on,

i am not only interested in horseback archery but, Persian traditional archery, which i think is very brilliant in some aspects,

there are some things that we can offer the world today that are ukknown so far, the fast shooting or stringing a bow on a horse etc... but please beware that the things i say are NOT necessarily the "Ancient Persian Archery" techniques, they are simply what i learned being in a family of Persian hunters & horsemen.

i will share all i have with hope to correct/introduce this precious art to the world...

and YES! i practice with Mehdi & Ahmad, we just finished a 10 day national team exercise, if we can find Sponsors on time i will come to Korea with them, otherwise Ahmad will win all the Golds again, hehe....

Zarasp.

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:47 pm

Dear Zarasp, May I add my personal welcome to ATARN. Please let me know what assistance you need to develop traditional archery in Iran. Although they are not traditional, I have good, long aluminium arrow shafts that are good for horseback archery practice. I can send you some for free. I can get strong Chinese traditional bows here made from glass fiber. Can you send me a photo of the sort of bows that you want to use?

Stephen Selby

Zarasp · Post by **Zarasp** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:48 pm

Thank you Very much Stephen for the welcome & the help, a pm is on your way!

mongolianarcher · Post by **mongolianarcher** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:10 am

May I add that I respect the Persian culture and traditions above many other countries for their value of art and language. That is why I am learning Farsi to help communication there between there and the West. It is a blessing that your grandfather holds the traditions within himself. You should attempt to try transcribing his knowledge down for the future if you have not already done so! But how is it there in your efforts for archery? And I feel you should also try contacting some Turkish horse archery enthusiasts because I have heard they have a large following there and appreciate Persian archery.

Zarasp · Post by **Zarasp** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:03 pm

Wow you are learning Persian? very cool!
let me know if i can help,

well the horse archery situation here....not so good...apart from over-priced junior bows & silly sport mafia/business...

our single biggest problem : lack of true horsemanship in the new generations of riders makes the cantering method very attractive & the only association here is supporting the Hungarian archery which in most aspects is absolutely against the traditions i know.

unfortunately i never wrote anything down that my grandfather said, i memorized them, he thought me archery & horse riding from 5 years old until i was seven years old, (and then i came to the city to go to school), i spent another 3 years with him hunting & riding and shooting the only bow he had left at the time, before he past away (about 12 years ago), he rode horses until the day he passed away at 94 years old....

i am teaching for free & i am working hard to learn & make people here better riders & archers ,but honestly, i dont think we will succeed if we dont do something that can end this cantering archery business around us, i just need to figure out what to do....

Zarasp

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:15 am

Zarasp; In a way you are lucky to be there at the beginning.

Zarasp · Post by **Zarasp** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:28 am

jack farrell wrote:Zarasp; In a way you are lucky to be there at the beginning.

yes! it's very true,
i had some good conversations recently, i think there are things we can do!

mongolianarcher · Post by **mongolianarcher** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:06 pm

Remember Lukas Novotny helped start the Horse Archery and interest in such fields years ago, and look how it has grown in America. So all you need is the yearning for knowledge and the passion to support it, and it shall flourish!

Persian archery is a venerable system and if you try reading up on the horsemanship aspect or find some way of improving your knowledge there shouldn't be anything stopping you!
But remember! It only took one generation for the Indian Composite bows to become a lost art, thus you need to bridge the generation of your Grandfather and future generations by recording the knowledge you took from him. If you know Arabic or Turkish I encourage you to record it in those translations as well to encourage interest if you can! Arab Archery and Saracen Archery give much insight today on ancient arts so trascribing your grandfather's art can help as well.

M??a · Post by **M??a** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:20 am

Zarasp wrote:

well the horse archery situation here....not so good...apart from over-priced junior bows & silly sport mafia/business...

our single biggest problem : lack of true horsemanship in the new generations of riders makes the cantering method very attractive & the only association here is supporting the Hungarian archery which in most aspects is absolutely against the traditions i know.

Zarasp

I completely agree with you. I have bigger respect for archers using tradidional equipment and traditional style than for sport results and historical costumes.
In my view- imposition of traditional archery isn?t only to hit target, but to make a hole to it

As sure as possible. Fastshooting isn?t as important as accuracy and penetration.

It is good report that somebody exist who have personaly contact with tradition, not only literary teory.
Today some of archers are using wooden arrows in traditional way (Gokmen etc.) and there are some traditional discipline- for instance quabac. But modern style is dominant.
Weak bows, carbon arrows, short distance, slow horses, mediterran release, special arrow nocks and fletching for fastshooting and fastshooting.

In Poland is tendence to rebuilt cavalry art - at least thumb release and riding art.

Zarasp · Post by **Zarasp** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:14 pm

Hi M??a & Mongoilian archer.
i am glad to see that you are in favor of the stronger methods of horse archery, we are not that few, we just need to find each other & unite to better the sport.

i think speed is related to accuracy, the more the speed, the harder to be accurate , i suggested a scoring system for our students in Tehran & i got good results, my topic is in Horseback archery forum on ATARN.

people like Tirendaz group ,Gokmen, Neil Payne & Pan-guen Lee are the sort of people who are stopping the loss of this art, i also have a few things to offer like the 2 finger traditional draw & belt quiver methods which are Persian tradition & i hope to correct & keep them.

I remember the candle & middle-fat arrows with semi-circular nocks,
today : wooden arrows with Persian nocks? I wish,
it might be hard to believe, but the only arrows we can buy right now are carbon arrows from IR horseback archery association for 20-25$ each.

because of the price we have to repair them (& repairing=messed up flight & weight)... but everybody HAS to do it.

as for the competitions, thanx to the people i mentioned above, qabaq is international & that's a great step!

I believe that with a united & precise scoring system, the sport will move towards faster archery & faster horses, & that will put an end to the cantering system.

note: i am not against cantering for beginners, cantering archery is nice & its fun to watch but i have never seen any historical record showing a cantering horseback archer & i dont believe the scoring system should allow it to advance to international grade 1 events

i think the current Hungarian & Korean scoring systems are not precise.

Zarasp · Post by **Zarasp** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:18 pm

Oh & finally i can show you our track!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRcz0VDcAfM

sorry couldnt embed the video

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:28 pm

Wau ! Thats what i luke Zarasp !Full galop, not that walking horse what you can see in Magyars school. Better one good strong shot than 10 from 20 lb bow from walking like killing horse . Super!
Whi you guys buy arrows and dont make yourself - wooden arrows ?

M??a · Post by **M??a** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:32 am

excelent work. I like your velocity.

Greetings from Iran

Welcome