Peopling of America

[jack farrell]

This is not about archery but where Native Americans came from. Some time this coming year, there will most likely be an announcement by a major archaeological group that a site has been found supporting a supposition that at least some of the earliest arrivers in the new world appear to have come from Europe.

Artifacts and a house site identical to those found in France during the Magdelenian period have been found BELOW those of a Clovis site. Already, the appearance of flint artifacts made in a Solutrean culture manner have been found in several sites, such that Dennis Stanford, head of archaeology at the Smithsonian, has suggested the likelihood of European immigrants during the Ice Age. The current find will most likely force an announcement that this is indeed fact.

None of these facts are expected to negate the belief that Asians (Siberians) also peopled the Americas from the East, but will expand that belief.

[Uli]

amazing - and we're the first to know

[Kviljo]

Wow! That is really cool.

[jak]

hello Jack
we know that ,since long time in france.The mitochondrial DNA studies are very interessing.
HNY

[Patrick Menzies]

I'm not sure why this would be such remarkable news? I was under the impression that at least the first wave of immigrants would have been more "cave people" of Europe than necessarily Asian.
Is it that far a stretch that European reindeer hunters weren't just following the herds and ended up over here?
The question may be more how long they lasted here and how much of their DNA contributed to the make-up of more modern Native Americans.

[jack farrell]

It can be embarrassing that what is obvious to others is not at all to Americans.

[Zoran Pavlovic]

Jack, as i know, first Europeans which had a first contact with Mandan tribe noticed blue eyes in most of them. Some scientists explained it by their early contacts with Viking settlements in Markland and Vinland. It is very possible.

[Uli]

I m not an archeology expert but mt-DNA and archeological finds are different things - so this is indeed something new to be added to the puzzle.

[Dusan]

Interesting thema. here is some scientig answer what i search :


About 40 000 years ago there was a slight warming of the Earth, the glaciers begin to recede and the time comes unstable, but the warmer climate. It might help to start a new stream of migration from Africa to Asia. This time it is a type of M89 derived from the M168. He gets the whole front of dominance in Asia, and extends further east, where it develops more lines M9 mutation. It is spreading further east, while the M89 remains in front of Asia and perhaps the first to penetrate into Europe. Today in the population retained only 0.2% of M89, but the female line mtDNA U5, which is associated with M89, remained in Europe throughout the 7%.
Other events outside Africa took place entirely in the direction of M89 line of successors. They almost blurring the original inhabitants of Asia, M174 and M216 types are preserved in large quantities only in the high mountains (Tibetan) or on remote islands (Ainu on Hokaido). Probably somewhere in Uzbekistan, separating from the M9 M45, M3, whose first branch penetrates Siberia to America (about 30 000 years ago). Another branch is disconnected from the M173 M45 passes before 30 000 years ago, the Kazakh steppe into Europe and erases the previous M98. The Middle East is its next successor M89 - M170.
We are in a time of about 20 000 years ago, maybe somewhere in Manchuria arises from the typical Chinese M9 mutation M214, which later completely fills the entire Southeast Asia. M9 is coming to the New Guinea and Australia. The New Guinea gives rise to a unique type M4. There is speculation that it was this migration wave brought to Australia dingo dog.
Apparently, in America at that time spread and only the M3 group, it is not like anthropologists who excavated the remains of the ancient Americans are much more morphological variation than those experienced today. It is therefore possible that penetrated to America and other groups (mainly speculation about M216, because anthropological similarities of Japanese and Ainu Kennewick mysterious remains of a man). These other groups apparently either had to die, or be exterminated without left behind a genetic link with us known Indians.

Figure 3: Estimate of the situation before 30 000 years ago. The area is color-coded according to haplotype, who dominated.



Prior to 4000 or perhaps 5000 years ago, there is a significant migration of people LLY22 group, it had still survive somewhere between the southern Urals and the Altai mountains, is actually kind of far less successful brother of Chinese M175. Now, however, quite quickly promoted throughout Siberia (at the expense of M173 and M170 last) and before 3,500 years ago to penetrate to the north of Europe, there still talks ural languages (Sami, Finnish, Estonian, ...), which are peculiar to this ethnic . The other part penetrates later as one of the last pre-Columbian migrations to North America. They are Eskimos and Aleuts. Their language is much more influenced by indigenous sub-polar areas of eastern Siberia and North America - speakers of the language groups of Na-Dene (Type M173), and so is their relationship to language ural languages today is little pronounced.

(sources-Links : http://ycc.biosci.arizona.edu
http://ystr.org
http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/Jobli ... Review.pdf
http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/A ... 65_p43.pdf

Another source -language :

Apaches, Navajos and other Indians speaking languages Den? groups are significantly different (genetically and linguistically) from the rest of 'native' American population. This may be because of the relatively late migration, much like the Eskimos. Other Indians of North and South America would then have a common origin - and the Apaches and Navajo Indians would in fact not at all.

And funy vikings...

[Thomas Duvernay]

Interesting thread, especially due to my lineage and personal history.

My father's family is American Indian (Odawa [Ottawa]), while my mother's family came to the Americas from the British Isles a couple decades before the Mayflower (The joke in the family was that my mom was proud of her long ago European ancestors to America, but my dad's ancestors were here to shake hands with them when they arrived ).

I have lived in Korea, continuously (with the exception of the occasional vacation--like right now), for the better part of a quarter-century, but first lived there 28 years ago. Koreans feel a kinship with American Indians, due to the long-held belief that Asians emigrated to the Americas over the Bering Sea land bridge many millennia ago; when my wife (Korean) and I married 28 years ago, people said I seemed familiar to them, so it was o.k. (However, I always felt I looked a lot more like my mom's European side of the family).

There were many wigwams over the past couple-hundred years that were visited by Europeans (especially French), so DNA won't necessarily explain anything. Years ago, I sent my son's DNA sample into National Geographic's Genographic Project; the result was a haplotype that originated in the area around Britain and France--not surprising, as there was a Frenchman a couple-hundred years ago who interrupted my father's family's gene pool (However, my current French family name has nothing to do with it (I probably have no blood relation to that family)--the Frenchman in question had the name of Trotochaud).

Another aspect is if you look at the "Kennewick Man", whose reconstructed face looks just like Patrick Stewart. I think it's possible Proto-Europeans may have peopled Asia at one time, too, so who knows who all came over the Pacific land bridge. According to many American Indians, there may have been emigration, but in which direction?

[geoarcher]

Dusan's post addresses this, but to summarize the current scientific state of research concerning genomic studies among indigineous groups in the Americas, genetic traits and peopling of New World stem primarily from a Bering Strait migration.

There IS NOT strong genetic evidence that the Native peoples of the America's descended from western Eurasians (aka Europeans).

Strong genetic links indeed have been found to present day Central Aisan and Siberian populations but not Europeans.

Note: Doesn't negate the idea that there was a colonization of "Solutrean people" to the New World but suggests major founder effects stem from Central and Eastern Eurasian populations.

A better question right now is why Western Eurasian genetic traits are largely absent among the Native people of the Ameircas, that is if we agree to the Solutrean hyothesis which has been ferverntly debated over the years.

More work neeeds to be done and we must keep in mind the many challenges that have plagued the field of archaeology in regards to to building proper chronological frameworks in addition to proper typological-taxonomic classification of material remains and identification of such.

Finally, the need for aDNA (ancient DNA) is dually needed to clear things up unequivocally. Some aDNA studies have been done on Paleolithic human remains found in Canada and again the mtDNA results suggested central-eastern Eurasian connections. However Y-chromosome DNA could always caste a different story and social dynamics during these times are often ill understood.

[Comox Tom]

Interesting theory proposed is this well done Canadian dramatization

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maziRFPY ... re=related

[geoarcher]

And that cable tv special that came out a few years ago illustrates what I'm getting at by social dynamics are ill understood. The end of the special suggests peaceful coexisting when "Solutreans" meet Bering strait migrants but the fact that no Y-chromosome DNA evidence for Solutrean genetic input exists among tribes today suggests IF such a scenario occurred, Solutrean men may have been killed off and women taken in by Bering strait migrants. Or it could be a matter of genetic drift, in that Solutreans were lesser in number and not as successful at reproducing for whatever reasons and that's why the Central Asian/Siberian genetic traits persist instead of European traits among first nation tribes of the Americas.

Truthfully, the perceived Solutrean/Euro. genetic input stemming from mtDNA among present day tribes (particularly ones in the NW of North Americ) is ambiguous and could have come from Siberian populations.

Then there are still the typological and chronological issues presently debated.

The show was heavy guess work.

[mongolianarcher]

This all adds to the fact that race supremacy is literally an unreality. We are all from the same common stock, whether people like it or not. Either if you're an evolutionist or a believer in Creation such as myself, humans are a large family, all adding to the beautiful mosaic that we are of cultures, attributes, and phenotypes.

[WillAdams]

Poul Anderson worked this concept into one of his ``Time Patrol''storie.s