Training my new style Manchurian

Holtzmann · Post by **Holtzmann** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:19 pm

Hello everyone!

Hope every one is good! here is a clip whne iam shooting my new founded style "Manchurian"
Got alot of help by Peter Dekker, els i would swim in a deep sea:P
i know i got some flaws that i have to fix, but their are comming:)

and yea when i remember, please don't tell me that it is to bad weather to train in;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVs4H5feOYM

here is also a film when i do this style from horseback
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfJeWv2X ... p0EncPw%3D

whit some help of my Finnish friend!

Best Regards Emil

MJuingong · Post by **MJuingong** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:03 am

Good. May I inquire:

1. how do you keep the arrow on the outside of the bow(as in all the foot archery and the 2d half of the horse archery)?

2. I note that for the first half of the mounted archery segment you had the arrow on the inside of the bow, then switched to outside. What prompted the switch?

3. In the foot archery segments were you shooting the two-fingered Mediterranean draw, or the thumb draw?

4. Is the bow a fiberglass replica?

5 what is the weight of pull, and what length, when at full draw?

Holtzmann · Post by **Holtzmann** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:30 am

Hello!

Thanks

1:
I put the arrow on my thumbside of the bow, using the thumb as a arrow shelf, in short term:) the thumbdraw, allows me to hold the arrrow agains the bow, so it will stay there mutch easier then the mediterian draw.

2: in the mounted archery film, we are two archers,
Iam Emil in the film and Tero is my student,
he goes from Trheefinger draw to thumbdraw and finaly he tries the manchurian style.

the first sequence the left frame is hes first galopp in the clininc and the the right frame is hes last galopp.
the thumbdraw technic is farmor superior in mounted archery then the mediterain draw, you don't need as mutch training in it to be accurate and shoot quite good from horseback.

3: iam shooting whit the thumbdraw:)

4: Yes the bow is a Fibergals bow made from Hungary by kassai.
the model is a hungarian (deer) i don't know how historical accurate the bow is, but it sutiable to my long draw^^

5: the bow is 40# at 28"
but iam drawing about 35" so its little heavier, don't know how mutch i could look it up:)

Best regards Emil

lars andersen · Post by **lars andersen** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:00 pm

It looks good

On your video where you shoot in the snow
(how can your finger handle it?)
You spend a lot of unnecessary movements, When you take a new arrow.

sincerely
Lars Andersen

Holtzmann · Post by **Holtzmann** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:44 am

Thanks Lars!

hum winter hardened?
don't know don't do mutch about it, but don't spend to long in the chill so you freeze them..

hum what should i change? please help me:)
btw those arrows are my heavy duty snow training arrows..
12mm pine shaft, whit a realy heavy tin bkunt think they weight closly to 0.5kg.

lars andersen · Post by **lars andersen** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:48 pm

When I look at the video it looks like you when you put a new arrow moves the focus away from the target, and instead to concentrate on adding a new arrow.

I think that maybe it will help you to automate your movements
so you can concentrate 100% on shooting.

So maybe you should spend some time to rehearse to put arrows on the bow
without shooting arrows until it was completely automated
and here you might find that it would simplify your movements.

sincerely
Lars Andersen

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:30 am

I am truly impressed at you shooting in the snow. I always thought Qing rings were better adapted to cold conditions than other types. Is the bandage on the index finger a different problem or are you getting a blister from pushing to hard against the arrow nock?

mongolianarcher · Post by **mongolianarcher** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:10 am

I don't want to repeat what anyone else said, but I believe you should try to not compromise your standing position in order to help with drawing. Bring the arrow to you instead of you leaning to the arrow. I know it sounds redundant, but it makes you much more consistent and the habit will stay with you unto your future bows, and also to your horsearchery.

Holtzmann · Post by **Holtzmann** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:21 am

I am truly impressed at you shooting in the snow. I always thought Qing rings were better adapted to cold conditions than other types. Is the bandage on the index finger a different problem or are you getting a blister from pushing to hard against the arrow nock?

Thanks! yea i got bandage on my index finger, but thats not becous of the archery, i belive that i had a wound on that finger. was just to pretect the arrows from blood:P
at the moment i don't use the Qing ring, using regular thumbdraw, but i feel more and more how the Qing thumb technic feels right.
need to make my self a ring:P

no i don't get blisters anymore. no ton the thumb, becous of that how mutch i shoot only whit tape, and the fact that i accidently had my thumb wounded in the bandsaw.. so i got not 100% feeling in the thumb, and a big scar going over there.. helps alot:P

but not something i recomend...

I don't want to repeat what anyone else said, but I believe you should try to not compromise your standing position in order to help with drawing. Bring the arrow to you instead of you leaning to the arrow. I know it sounds redundant, but it makes you much more consistent and the habit will stay with you unto your future bows, and also to your horsearchery.

iam not realy sure what you mean?
i don't know how mutch you know about machurian archery.
but the id? is the same as the english lonbowmen, leaning in to the bow.
and using the back muscels even more.

my left fot is placed litte bit infront of my shoulder wide, this help the the hole body to get a 45 degres postion.
later the back foot will move back
it make the string run at an angel against you wrist, and not parallel agains you arm. easier to not hit youself and using big cloth.

i canter the bow so the string move freely around any helmet, and it allows me to put the string in my chest and the feathers at my mouth whitout eather getting cought in the cloth or hitting my face.
It gives me two anchour points instead of one^^

i don't write this to supress you or anything jsust so other got the id? how its made^^

but stil iam not realy sure how you mean.

mongolianarcher · Post by **mongolianarcher** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:32 pm

Nice pics! Yes, you are quite right I forgot about the Qing way of shooting which, as you have said, is quite like the longbowmen of old. So continue what you are doing hah! Your form is very good.
And also the qing thumb ring does feel awkward at first, but you may want to buy Kay's Thumbring Book which is a very good description of thumbrings. I think the chinese thumbring feels more mechanical, which is always good for crisp shooting.
And by the way talk to Peter Dekker on this website who owns thumbrings, and I believe he is in the Netherlands, next to you!

He is a goldmine of information about Chinese weapons arts.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:11 pm

You seem to be relaxing your middle finger in the pictures. Is that on purpose?

Holtzmann · Post by **Holtzmann** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:04 pm

Nice pics! Yes, you are quite right I forgot about the Qing way of shooting which, as you have said, is quite like the longbowmen of old. So continue what you are doing hah! Your form is very good.
And also the qing thumb ring does feel awkward at first, but you may want to buy Kay's Thumbring Book which is a very good description of thumbrings. I think the chinese thumbring feels more mechanical, which is always good for crisp shooting.
And by the way talk to Peter Dekker on this website who owns thumbrings, and I believe he is in the Netherlands, next to you!
He is a goldmine of information about Chinese weapons arts.

Haha no problem;) ieasy to happends^^
yea iam going ot order that book! thanks about the tips! chinese archery is realy interesting!:D

You seem to be relaxing your middle finger in the pictures. Is that on purpose?

Iam guessing you men the middle finger on my draw hand,
i don't know if iam doing it on purpuse or not, it was little cold that morning, so it could be so becous the cold weather, or just becous the pictures is taken in the releasing moment. ^^
els those three fingers shouldbe closed:P

Holtzmann · Post by **Holtzmann** » Thu May 10, 2012 7:40 am

thought of giving you a spring picture!

this is the first galopp whit the bow this spring, the mudd makes it realy hard to any riding..http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =3&theater

Amarutu · Post by **Amarutu** » Thu May 10, 2012 10:52 am

could you host this picture somewhere out of facebook, please? I'm really interestet in your photo, but I can't see it, if it is on facebook.

Holtzmann · Post by **Holtzmann** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:46 pm

have been training alot more now, and i have changed the bow to an Mariner Qing 2 bow 50# at 35"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw-GZvnQNag
some ground training whit the cylindrical ring, in this vido i havn't decided if my arm should go back or just stay.. but i thinki have figured it out now;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsKz9LcZVWc

probebly the first Manchurian mounted archery since the downfall of the Qing dynasty whit the cylindrical ring and no nockingpoint.

/E