Images of broken north Indian bow for study

Chris Boyton · Post by **Chris Boyton** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:05 pm

I don't generally post on forums, but I have enjoyed looking at some of the subjects you guys have covered, and I thought some images of a broken bow in my collection might be of interest to anyone building composite bows.

The bow is badly damaged (not by myself) and it does give an insight into the level of work that went into building a bow of this type.
The previous owner (an old friend sadly now gone) had took the bow apart after it failed in use, and rather than repair it he left it like this for study.
The core resembles either mulberry or elm, but with age it's difficult sometimes to tell for sure.
The tips are made of a tropical type wood resembling mahogany, but again hard to tell, it also resembles the timber from my Indian 1902 universal pattern saddle, so who knows.
The exsposed horn is heavily scored,with random broad grooves which do not run parallel to the sides, and therefore would not match up with any coresponding grooves that might be in the wood.
The single fishtail joints are well cut, fit well, and appear to be glued with what looks like hide glue.
I can now see that you can only put three images on at a time, so be patient, and I will post more images as I sort them for size etc.
Chris Boyton.

Chris Boyton · Post by **Chris Boyton** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:09 pm

more images of North indian bow

Chris Boyton · Post by **Chris Boyton** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:16 pm

more images of broken North indian bow

Chris Boyton · Post by **Chris Boyton** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:23 pm

More images of Broken North Indian bow

Kviljo · Post by **Kviljo** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:55 pm

Wow!

I love it. Thanks a lot for sharing!

It is very pleasent to see how it "conforms" to what previous discussions here have concluded about these bows. I like the way the horn at the grip and the edges by the grip splices on the back have been filled out by some kind of darker sinew/glue-mixture. Also, it seems like the same have been done to fill out a gap along the edges of the horn strips in the limbs? Any idea what this substance consists of? It seems quite different from the sinew layer.

Two more questions:

* the glue line between the core and horn is flat?

* on one picture of the back of the "kasan"/tip it seems like there is some kind of fabric covering? - or maybe it is simply varnish that is misleading my eyes?

scemdonmez · Post by **scemdonmez** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:41 am

Thanks for sharing.

Cem

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:37 pm

Chris, pictures like these are priceless. Thank you for sharing !

Same questions as Kviljo.

+ I might have seen a similar dark "gap filling" substance on a contemporary mongolian bow, will make a pic. However no idea what it is.

Uli

Chris Boyton · Post by **Chris Boyton** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:44 pm

Kviljo wrote:Wow! I love it. Thanks a lot for sharing!

It is very pleasent to see how it "conforms" to what previous discussions here have concluded about these bows. I like the way the horn at the grip and the edges by the grip splices on the back have been filled out by some kind of darker sinew/glue-mixture. Also, it seems like the same have been done to fill out a gap along the edges of the horn strips in the limbs? Any idea what this substance consists of? It seems quite different from the sinew layer.

Two more questions:

* the glue line between the core and horn is flat?

* on one picture of the back of the "kasan"/tip it seems like there is some kind of fabric covering? - or maybe it is simply varnish that is misleading my eyes?

The excess glue appears to be hide glue, although I can't discount the possibility that the previous owner might have tried to do repairs on it using hide glue.
The glue line between the horn and core is indeed flat, although with the deep rough scoring of the horn, the two surfaces don't appear to have a great amount of contact, relying on plenty of glue to keep them together.
I have seen a broken Turkish bow where the glue was so thick it formed into crystalised lumps.
I can't say what the surface covering is but it does not appear to be fabric. I will take the bow into the workshop next week and have a look under a lense and see if I can work out how the bow is covered under what is left of the decoration.
Chris Boyton.

Kviljo · Post by **Kviljo** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:20 pm

Fantastic stuff

I'll be looking forward to a report on what you find!

It seems to be quite covered with sinew still, but maybe it is possible to see if the "kasan" wooden piece has some ridge on the back. - or maybe it all seems to be built up with sinew? Also, what is your impression of the wood in that bent section; is it taken from a naturally grown piece or a straight piece that has been bent?

I hope not to be boring you with too many questions, but it is hard to hold them back, hehe. Thanks again!

Chris Boyton · Post by **Chris Boyton** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:39 am

Kviljo wrote:Fantastic stuff I'll be looking forward to a report on what you find!

It seems to be quite covered with sinew still, but maybe it is possible to see if the "kasan" wooden piece has some ridge on the back. - or maybe it all seems to be built up with sinew? Also, what is your impression of the wood in that bent section; is it taken from a naturally grown piece or a straight piece that has been bent?

I hope not to be boring you with too many questions, but it is hard to hold them back, hehe. Thanks again!

Kviljo
I know it's not very professional, but I was tempted to carefully remove some of the sinew from the kasan to study the ridge, but I am still undecided about that.
The tip and the exposed joint at the kasan appear to be the same type of tropical hardwood, and knowing how some tropical woods resist steam or heat bending, I wonder whether it is a naturally curved piece or built up using another joint.
Chris.

PAZUZU · Post by **PAZUZU** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:35 pm

These images are very precious to me. Thanks Chris!

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:00 am

the info about the glue line is interesting.
so we have evidence of thick glue lines with nonmatching grooves in
contemporary korean, ottoman and mughal bows.
however it seems this method is not employed by many of us ?

Chris Boyton · Post by **Chris Boyton** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:03 pm

Well I'm glad the images are of use, I hope it will inspire the budding bowmakers amongst you to keep up your researches.

I took a close look today at the surface of the bow, and it's hard to tell quite how it is finished, as the surface is almost petrified, and the paint or laquer is crazed all over. It looks like very very thin leather as one might expect, there is no sign of birch bark, or any sign of a lead base coat.

Here are some more images, although they are not that clear.

Sorry about the sizing of the images, I'm still struggling a bit with all the techy stuff.
Chris Boyton

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:07 am

These bows do seem to follow a standard layout, though there are variations. This one seems to have more horn than the one I saw at the Koppedrayers' house. One thing I haven't seen yet, but have heard of, is a bow with a multiple horn strip belly like Persian bows.

The quality of the joints is obvious and made even more visible by the contrasting colours of the woods used. It is interesting that the strong bends are concentrated in the ears where the wood is heavily reinforced with sinew on all sides. I think that this form of construction could be important for several composite bows of the Middle Ages.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:30 pm

The texture of the wood is cut with a coarse rasp on the diagonal and the grooves in the horn, not parallel or matching, are not deep Vs. Looks like the ridge of the siyah was made up of sinew at the splice.