historical shooting in cold weather

Justin Ma · Post by **Justin Ma** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:31 am

In a discussion with some friends, the topic of shooting in cold weather (around -20 C) came up. I'm less interested in how the bows tolerated the cold, and more interested in how the archers tolerated the cold without dramatically compromising their technique.

For example, would they wear gloves (even beneath their thumb rings), or stick their hands in hand warmers between shots? Would they tough it out and conduct business as usual? Or was there a general understanding that no hunting or warfare would take place in super cold conditions?

Just some food for thought.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:56 am

I am not sure of super-cold conditions, but I have some information about cold conditions. While I have made a thumb ring to fit over a glove and shoot, I don't think this idea was common. Most Asian archers wore clothes with very long sleeves rather than gloves. In the taiga and the Arctic, gloves and mittens were common however. One technique involved shooting in such a manner as the sleeve slipped down over the hand after the arrow was released.

In some areas the cuff of the sleeve was enlarged so it partially covered the hand like the famous horse-hoof cuffs of the Manchus. In paintings and photographs, they are usually shown folded back when the archer is shooting.

There are plenty of paintings and accounts of hunting in the snow and the Kirghiz were said to hunt from skis. In winter the Manchu emperors were entertained by people doing tricks on ice skates including archery.

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:30 am

My impressions in China and Mongolia is that the approach to keeping the hands warm is long sleeves rather than gloves. I have spent some time in a Mongolian tunic at -20C without gloves and my hands were perfectly warm inside the sleeves.

lars andersen · Post by **lars andersen** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:30 pm

I've used gloves with a ring that fit when I shot with bow in the Danish
winter and it's not really good.
I will get a jacket with big long sleeves, that's much smarter

Thanks to Bede and Stephen

J. Bergkvist · Post by **J. Bergkvist** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:16 pm

What about protecting the hands, but not the fingers?
I often use this "trick" here in cold Sweden.
Think of a jacket or thick shirt with long sleeves (usally I use a thick wool cardigan), and imagine that you can stick your thumb through the sleeves approx. 5-10 cm from the opening.
Then you protect your hand and helps the blood flow easier to your fingers since the hand will keep warm (deppending on how cold weather of course), but, leaving your fingers and thumb free for archery.
This is indeed like a glove with no finger parts, but there is no chance that the wind will get between the glove and sleeve, since there is no glove.

Not untill under -15 Celsius I will experience that there is nothing to do, especially if there is strong wind.

Also, the shooting itself helps a lot. Don't get passive, allways move and do some action if not shooting!
The first part i freeze is the bowhand, the most passive hand..

So, the best trick I think is to keep as much parts as possible warm that comes before the fingers, helping the blood circulation.
The wrist might be most important. Big, shallow artery there...

Lars, is there any mounted archers in Denmark that you know of.
Sorry for borrowing the topic...

/Jimmie

jiao · Post by **jiao** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:31 am

-20 C for the people in some cold area is not so cold, -30c-40c is so cold for face and finger and foot

J. Bergkvist · Post by **J. Bergkvist** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:34 pm

Wanted to add one nice trick for those who don't know of it.
If you begin to freeze your hands and fingers, then spin your arms quite fast in vertical line so that you force some blood to your frozen limbs. Don't over do it, make it slow and then faster untill you find the right "preasure" of blood running to your hands. It will feel strange the first times and if you do it to fast, it's possible it might hurt a little.

As long as the "rest of the body" is warm, this will make your hands almost equally warm, and better is, as long as it's no extrem temp. the heat will last amazingly long time.

jkekoni · Post by **jkekoni** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:04 pm

It is called playing duck.

You can test it without cold. You will feel the pumping in your hands, when you do it right.

Gokmen · Post by **Gokmen** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:54 pm

Interesting technique Jimmy, I will try it next winter.

The Ottomans usually planned their campaigns/sieges to start in spring and end autumn. But if things took longer than anticipated they usually stopped their campaigns during winter and camped in a different location only to come back the next spring. Other than bows, gunpowder was similarly effected by weather.

The question is interesting though, I wouldnt know what the Turks of earlier times in Central Asia did. They were more dependent on the bow as a means of survival through hunting/pillaging/defending.

Pikkuhannu · Post by **Pikkuhannu** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:54 am

I have shoot with the Mediterranean release in winters.

Here in Finland it is usually -20C, sometimes even -30.

I used 3 fingers glove below and above there was glove which i cut those three fingers off.
So stringfingers are protected with leather and others with warm material.

Don?t know yet, how i gonna shoot with thumbring next winter. Just moved to thumb (won?t go back to three fingers

), and here is 0C now, so no need to gloves.

Maybe must find ring that works with glove.

Offtopick:
Nice to have this forum, hard to find place where to talk thumbring...

Scott M. Rodell · Post by **Scott M. Rodell** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:07 pm

I haven't shot much in the cold, here in Northern Virginia, it usually doesn't get that cold, the worst we usually have to deal with is 0 C. But from my experience, I don't think it was very difficult to wage war in colder weather, at least not as far as the battles were concerned. I've much more experience in full contact historical swordplay than cold weather archery, & honestly, we schedule our more demanding all day trainings for the coldest times of year. In January, we played outside in -10 C & with all the Manchu type gambeson/armor, sweat is rolling down your face. So I imagine that once a battle started, the troops wouldn't have any problems being warm enough to shoot.

Peter Dekker · Post by **Peter Dekker** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:34 pm

Justin Ma wrote:For example, would they wear gloves (even beneath their thumb rings), or stick their hands in hand warmers between shots? Would they tough it out and conduct business as usual? Or was there a general understanding that no hunting or warfare would take place in super cold conditions?

There were indeed such an understanding, but it was to the contruary: The war season was generally in winter. Mongols and Manchus who were endured to the cold preferred campaigning in winter because they could advance easily over frozen rivers. (Note that on all battle artwork Manchus are seen wearing winter hats. Wearing such a hat in summer was strictly forbidden.)

There were even Manchu archers on ice skates. They became obsolete once the cold north was conquered, but kept in the ranks for special winter demonstrations on the lakes around the Palace in Beijing. As for the South, conditions in summer can be extremely hot and humid, even with light equipment it is no weather to do battle in.

As indicated, it can get quite warm moving in full equipment so warmth is a greater enemy of a campaigning army than cold. Many Manchu soldiers perished in the Southern campaigns, unaccustomed to hot jungle conditions and vulnerable for tropical diseases.

-Peter

PjSingh · Post by **PjSingh** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:16 pm

War has always been a winter thing in India,particularly in the north as it made food preservation easier,almost no rain and the rivers are not flodded,plus the men,animals and weapons preform better.
The heat of the summers in india is literally killer hence all historical events show campaigns and all state visits being conducted in the winter months.
P.J.

Peter Dekker · Post by **Peter Dekker** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:02 pm

The preservation of food makes excellent sense. I suppose this must have been a major reason for the practice of winter campaigning in Asia, one that I had so far overlooked.

In projecting power the main challenge for the Qing, and probably any empire of its day, was logistics. The great improvements made in logistics made by Kangxi, Yongzheng and Qianlong played quite a role in enabling them to effectively fight battles so far away from the capital and expanding the borders like they did. The bodies of troops moving were often too big to live off the land locally. They would place too much of a burden on local farmers if not supplied well, which in turn could lead to local rebellions.

-Peter

Holtzmann · Post by **Holtzmann** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:42 pm

as long as you keep something on your head and have good cloth so the rest of the body keeps warm, then its no problem to shoot while its cold.
and good tips is take a long walk or do some warmup before you going to shoot.

the cooldest i have been shooting in was -30c barhanded, 5 arrows and i had no feeling in my fingers^^

but until then well judge by yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVs4H5feOYM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw-GZvnQNag

shooting the hole winter whitout gloves. but now iam living in northen Sweden also;P so iam quite used to coold:P