Special visit to the T?rckische Cammer in Dresden possible

Arry · Post by **Arry** » Sat May 18, 2013 6:23 pm

Dear all,

the "T?rckische Cammer" in Dresden has around a dozen of original Turkish and Crimean Tatar bows on display, quite a few of them still strung.

http://www.skd.museum/de/museen-institu ... he-cammer/

The curator, Mr Schuckelt, has been so kind to agree to a special visit by up to five interested ATARNos during which it will be possible to remove some of the bows from their cabinets and give them a closer look.

Mr Schuckelt hopes to gain additional info on the bows in his collection: What type of bow is it, what is special about them? For us, it would be a great occasion to measure and weigh the bows (and ramie strings, where possible) so reproductions would become possible. It is not clear yet if we can take pictures.

Due to organizational reasons stated by the museum, the visit has to be conducted on a Tuesday in June or August.

If you you can contribute to supplying additional info on the bows and would like to participate, please use this doodle form to state your preferred date(s):

http://www.doodle.com/auzpf4p8etfqypz4

When filling out the form, please use your forum nickname so I can contact you afterwards via private message here in the ATARN forum.

Cheers,
Arry

Arry · Post by **Arry** » Tue May 21, 2013 6:31 am

Dear all,

the group is complete, and 13 August it is!

From those who have filled out the Doodle form,
I know
- Uli
- Kyudohund
- Cem
- Fenris
- Daniel
to be knowledgeable about Ottoman-Turkish bows or, in Daniel's case, about arrows. I as organizer of this event claim a potential sixth place.

My apologies to the user who timely entered the Doodle form as "Jan", but such a nickname does not exist on ATARN (at least user search says so) and therefore I cannot assess your credentials. I am very sorry, but due to the restriction of places for this event, I would ask you to contact the T?rckische Cammer via email and organize an individual visit.

Cheers,
Arry

Edit: Could Uli, Kyudohund, Cem and Daniel please supply me via PM with their email address? It would facilitate the further organization of the visit.

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Tue May 28, 2013 7:06 am

Herzlichen Dank Jarek!

Peter

Fenris · Post by **Fenris** » Tue May 28, 2013 8:56 pm

Dem kann ich mich nur anschlie?en und hofffentlich kannst Du es ebenfalls einrichten lang zu kommen

!

Viele Gr??e

Kevin

Fenris · Post by **Fenris** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:24 pm

To all the members of the visit to the turkish chamber in Dresden:

There are now actual considerations of performing a little flightshooting beforhands of the visit in the museum. As I already mentioned in personal e-mails there is an old Russian military airport where the area is very even and there is at least 600 m of open free space. Arrows could be shot and distances could be either measured or tracked with tools like google earth or similar.
I for myself would like to bring 2-3 bows with me that I actual shot quite regular. That is a "Ottoman-Style", 55 lbs at 30''; a 65 lbs at 32'' korean horn bow and a Hwarang with 95 lbs @ 32''.
Uli and Jarek already agreed that they would like to bring there bows along. I am posting this to hear from the other participants

. What do you think?

All the best

Kevin

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:55 am

.......everywhere i am, my yumi is too.......

Peter

KenH · Post by **KenH** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:32 pm

How very Zen of you

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:19 pm

i practice KYUDO, not ZEN

.....

KenH · Post by **KenH** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:26 pm

board won't let me delete this post....

KenH · Post by **KenH** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:27 pm

Kyudo, Iaido, Kenjitsu, Aikido, T'ai chi ch'uan, Shaolin, Pa Qua and more -- all ways to achieve Zen or Ch?n, the meditative state.

You say to-mayo-toe, I say to-mah-toe

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:10 pm

Good idea:)
I'll have 2-3 bows with me as well as selection of my "oriental" arrows, you're welcome to try them.

Arry · Post by **Arry** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:39 am

Dear all, the visit went on as planned yesterday, on 12 August 2013. The ATARN visitors group consisted of Cem D?nmez, Daniel, Kyudohund/Peter, Jan Sachers, Fenris/Kevin, Uli and myself.

I would like to thank all participants for their valuable input and of course Mr Schuckelt of the Staatliche Kunstsammlungen Dresden for making such a visit possible!

It will take a few days and maybe even weeks to compile the results. Many thanks to Cem for measuring the bows, to Uli for keeping the minutes and to Kevin in advance for calculating the draw-weight estimates.

Of course, we made a lot of pictures. Some of the available bows were truly magnificent. But please be patient; first we will have to ask Mr Schuckelt's permission regarding pictures which we would like to post on ATARN.

As you know one of the most interesting features of the Dresden bows is the fact that quite a few of them are strung. A closer examination of the strings showed that they indeed consist of brownish individual strings (maybe 1,5-2mm) made from plant fibers (Ramie? Linnen?), wrapped with serving along their whole length including the ears. The inner part of the string was visible where the serving was incomplete.
Nearly all the bows had this type of apparently "endless" string, which, according to Cem, corresponds with the design feature of string bridges, and the bows indeed had such string bridges.
As far as we could see, there were only two bows (unfortunately, in the cabinets, so they could not be examined closely) with string knots. But even they had string bridges.

Kviljo · Post by **Kviljo** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:00 am

Fantastic! This would be worthy of an article/report in the Journal of the Society of Archer Antiquaries...

(also, I'm quite excited to hear that measurements were taken

)

Would you say that the strings seemed to be authentic, or could it be that they were made some time ago by the museum to display the bows strung? Did they show signs of use?

Adam Karpowicz · Post by **Adam Karpowicz** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:30 am

Thanks Jarek and Cem for checking on the strings. Looking forward to the pictures and the measuremens.

Adam

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:57 pm

Thank you for your iniciative and organization Jarek,
its probably no exaggeration to say have we have met the best preserved strung ottoman and tatar bows in the world live.. with Turkey's best bowyer and two arrow specialists in our rows.

Uli