Question Concerning Effective Bow Range

Murat ?zveri · Post by **Murat ?zveri** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:25 pm

In the Military Museum I have seen cane arrows whose shafts are not proper (some of them have nearly zig-zag form). They have very heavy iron extensions ended up with integrated broadheads and very high FOC. I think their effective range must have been very short and the accuracy moderate. I guess they were shot from horse back and from very short distances.

Yucel mentions that the cane for flight arrows was imported from India. Because of this the arrows' costs was high. But I think these arrows are made of domestic cane with selfnocks (reinforced with sinew). They're cheaper war arrows.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:59 am

Murat,
Do you mean the arrows are crooked? Are they illustrated in Yucel?

Adam Karpowicz · Post by **Adam Karpowicz** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:17 pm

If these are arrows I saw there on exhibit, my impression was they were not Turkish. Very crude with large heads and long tangs exposed (stuck into the reed's end). The reed section seemed too short. But I may be wrong.

There were other arrows, pefectly Turkish or Tatar too.

Adam

Murat ?zveri · Post by **Murat ?zveri** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:00 pm

Bede,

They're not illustrated in Yucel's book.

Yucel gives a lot of information about Turkish reed arrows. There were even reed arrows that were built up from reed segments, somehow similiar to modern carbonfiber arrows. Ant type of reed arrows required precise work. But that kind of "quickly-made" arrows are not mentioned. Adam may be right, maybe they're not turkish. But there is another possibility. The large armies must've need numerous arrows. Inexpensive arrows with short range might have been the answer. With their very short shaft and incredibly high FOC, they fit the turkish style horseback fighting. There is no evidence whether they're fletched with large feathers, but it would make sense.

Yucel says, cane/reed for flight arrows were imported from India and it increased the cost of the arrows. These arrows in the exhibition are not that of tropical climate and seem to be domestic.

In south-western coast there is a place called Dalyan with its famous Iztuzu beach and its Caretta carettas (with Kaunos, a beautiful Ionic acroplis next to it). Being between Mediterranian see and a Lagoon and having subtropical climate, there are a lot of local reeds. I noticed a small village next to Dalyan named "Okcular". The word "okcu" means "archer" in today's Turkish, but "arrowsmith" in old language. I couldn't find out any trace about this name.

It's known that there were villages to support the logistic needs of the Ottoman army. Some of them were in charge for shoes, some for other tackle worn on the way to battlefield. This village might have manufactured mass-produced cheap arrows during/prior to battle so that the armies load was lessened.

This is just a theorie and I cannot prove it unless it's supported by further research.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:45 pm

Murat; There have been several discussions here about the exact botanical species of various Turkish and Indian cane/reed/bamboo arrows. It would appear common knowledge that Persians and others used Phragmites, river cane, which grows across the world. However, it is my belief that Indo Persians also used bamboo for arrows. Some of their arrows seem to strong for Phragmites, especially in the small diameters which they used.

Do you have any information? -j-

Murat ?zveri · Post by **Murat ?zveri** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:16 pm

Jack,

I agree with you. The reed imported by my ancestors should be bamboo or a similar tropical specie. I have not seen any sample of what Unsal Yucel mentioned. In exhibitions arrows made of pine are more common. If I can see and examine any I'll tell you.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:50 pm

Murat and Jack,
It is unlikely that tropical bamboo were used for high grade Indian arrows. If bamboo was used outside of the slopes of the Himalayas, it was most likely cooler climate bamboo like the running bamboos of China, Japan and Korea. These were available in Northern India. Many of the tropical bamboos are clumping bamboos and were used by tribal people in India for making arrows.

Whether the Turks imported bamboo for arrows or not is a very interesting question. There is a ramie string for a Turkish bow in Karlsruhe that is made in the Chinese fashion. This indicates that the Osmanli Turks could obtain Chinese archery products. However, the Chinese themselves were not using bamboo for arrows at this period (Qing). Personally, I think it would be easier to make the composite reed arrows from bamboo due to the greater wall thickness of the culms.

Murat's comment about the crude reed arrows with exposed iron tangs suggests that they are African. There is at least one quiver in the Askeri Museum that is undoubtedly African.

Reed amaji arrows from India are designed for close shooting and they are extremely well made because of the tremendous stresses they undergo. Amaji arrows were used in Iran and Turkey too. In close-in shooting they had great impact because of their weight and they also had very strong arrow heads.