Bow String Knot

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:48 pm

The bowline is not the same knot. The way I have drawn the knot was based on several sources that were identical. I have also inspected several original bowstrings from China that were made the same way so I am sure of the structure and the accuracy of the sources.

While I haven't had one of these knots break, I haven't used it on any material that was not very strong in itself. I have seen sinew and rawhide strings made this way and I made one of gut. All of these materials are strong and tough.

I have broken linen strings. Linen becomes brittle when it dries out. The low humidity on the Great Salt Lake can often kill a good linen string. In my case the strings broke all along the central skein. However, a knot is the natural weak point of a string because many forces concentrate there. It doesn't mean the string has been made badly, but it could reflect a weakness in one of the strands.

fusizoli · Post by **fusizoli** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:15 pm

a usefull link

http://www.realknots.com/knots/sloops.htm

WillAdams · Post by **WillAdams** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:41 am

Interesting list of bowstring knots here:

Ashley Book of Knots #151

William

fusizoli · Post by **fusizoli** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:56 pm

fusizoli · Post by **fusizoli** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:13 am

fusizoli wrote:
Bede wrote:

Most, if not all, surviving strings for non-contact siyah bows had small loop knots. They were usually just big enough to slip over the end of the bow. The early Hungarian archaeological articles on excavated bows compared them to contemporary (to the archaeologists) Manchu bows. Since they were working with only the remaining bone plates from the bows, they reconstructed the strings from the only thing they had at hand for comparison, the Chinese bowstring. This was a reasonable hypothesis until strings for similar bows were discovered in Central Asia.

Bede
You've sad "Most, if not all, surviving strings for non-contact siyah bows had small loop knots. They were usually just big enough to slip over the end of the bow."

Schould we know something from this ones? Just think you mean Niya ,Gansu amd Khotan bows but I ve seen just the last ones string. "strings for similar bows were discovered in Central Asia"

Working on to reconstruct the 9.-10th century Hungarian bows string as close as possible.

"Making a string with tunc for a contact siyah bow requires just as much precision as any endless loop string, perhaps more. Using that kind of string for a non-contact siyah bow is inefficient (too much extra weight), unhistorical (there is no evidence for tunc before the development of contact siyahs) and inelegant (it looks clunky)."
(What is the meaning of tunc in this case?)

Like to ask your opinion from what kind of loop and string would U prefer on a bow like this? https://docs.google.com/a/botondbow.com ... GF0QQ/edit

Best regards Zoltan

Uli · Post by **Uli** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:16 am

10th cent bow from Mongolia with original string

fusizoli · Post by **fusizoli** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:31 am

Thanks a lot Uli! Great pic!

Is it from the internet or You made it? Have you got a better quality and some more data?

jkekoni · Post by **jkekoni** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:16 am

A few slightly relevant comments.

Original knots are used with original materials. Modern materials are much more slippery and original knots may not be so good for them.

Linen breaks specially easily in sharp twists.

Modern materials can be twisted without losing much strength at all. This is one reason why original wooden bows often have big tips, but modern ones have tiny tips. Philosophi? naturalis principia mathematica is the other one.

Practically all knots weaken rope. The exceptions are Bimini twist and Australian braid and such. All of these knots are big.

fusizoli · Post by **fusizoli** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:31 am

Jkekoni

Several old wooden bows had narow tips since the stone age.
Other wise on wooden bows the non streching plant fiber strings
working better especially on the longer ones.
Today the problam is the factory made linen, hemp etc. made from 10 cm pieces and not from the whole lenght of the plant. If schould make a string from 1 m or longer fibers than could have an exellent strong and light string for any kind of wooden bow.
Mary Rose bows with about 120-140# had just a bit more than 3 mm hemp string with twisted loops and knots. Bede had brakes at the salt lakes Arizona on about 15-20% Rh. That extreme dry condition weaken the plant fibers.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:08 am

Silk is the slipperiest material I have ever made strings from. A tight section of serving can be slid up and down the string with some pressure. Plant fibres have much more grip. I think linen makes excellent strings for damp climates like coastal areas and places like England and France.

Kevlar and similar materials proved tricky with separate tunc sections, but that could be overcome using served loops or using a wax resin mix on the strands. It is pretty much the same thing necessary for filament silk. Gut strings need to be wetted where the string has to bend in the knot otherwise they are too stiff to tie. Pre-stretched gut strings showed no appreciable lengthening in different conditions, but they had to be pre-stretched and dried under considerable tension.

Gazzanoo · Post by **Gazzanoo** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:01 am

Just thought I would post this site, get some ideas for knots, not really archery related but it might help.

http://www.animatedknots.com/

pcoutin · Post by **pcoutin** » Fri May 20, 2016 6:43 pm

Has anyone done the knot in the OP with dyneema? Or would it slip even with serving? (though serving would be annoying..)

Would it be good w/ any synthetic materials besides polyester(dacron and kevlar(breaks after a while..)?

Would that be the knot used in the Mongolian bow above?..

It'd be nice if there was something between UHMWTFBBQpolyethylene and polyester... that had good friction.. and low mass... and good strength...

Amarutu · Post by **Amarutu** » Sun May 22, 2016 6:56 pm

I tried a D75 String with knotted ears ... and it did hold for 6 shots. Can't reccomend it.

fusizoli · Post by **fusizoli** » Tue May 31, 2016 10:11 am

We in the society have been made experiments with natural strings.

In the first part of the experiment we made rawhide strings.
Our goal was to make a useable string for our hornbows.

Most of tham made from goat skin and it works fine with knoted ears.
The long lasting test still on, but the best was 1500 shots with archer ring and hornbow.
It had broken partly at the arrownock.

So I think its enough good if made the " right" method.

From the last year we use this rawhide strings on our long ear hornbows.

The silk project not finished jet...

pcoutin · Post by **pcoutin** » Tue May 31, 2016 6:55 pm

fusizoli wrote:We in the society have been made experiments with natural strings.

In the first part of the experiment we made rawhide strings.
Our goal was to make a useable string for our hornbows.

Most of tham made from goat skin and it works fine with knoted ears.
The long lasting test still on, but the best was 1500 shots with archer ring and hornbow.
It had broken partly at the arrownock.

So I think its enough good if made the " right" method.

From the last year we use this rawhide strings on our long ear hornbows.

The silk project not finished jet...

Nice!
I heard Magyars might've used gut...

Bow String Knot

Tieing knots