3 tibetan arrows

Romain · Post by **Romain** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:32 am

Yesterday for the first time, I found 3 real tibetan arrows, not the usual ugly pieces of wood shoots wrapped with leather that they pretend being arrows...

Material : probably a kind of bamboo for the shaft and iron for the heads.
Total Length : 74 cm - 76 cm
Nock to back of arrow head : 61 to 62 cm (a short draw)
Arrow head length : 11 to 12 cm
Diameter : 5mm at the shaft ends, 6 mm at the widest (barrelled)

Romain · Post by **Romain** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:34 am

Detail of the nocks. They are very thin. There is a long wrapping along the shaft above which the feather were glued, only part of their quills remain.

Romain · Post by **Romain** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:36 am

Detail of the arrow heads. They are really bodkin like...

Romain · Post by **Romain** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:37 am

Some writing can be found on each shaft. No doubt Stephen can translate that for us in no time.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:04 pm

Romain; Very nice find. I have some questions. Were the fletches origionally very short and not extending to the nocks? These are the first bamboo arrows that I remember seeing from Tibet, and you? And would you see these as target arrows or military?

Another, if you do not mind. When you showed old quivers from Tibet in the markets, would those have been for military or sporting use? Jack.

pierre · Post by **pierre** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:34 pm

Hi,
these would be fine with my thibetan bow

are you able to see if the nocks are glued on nocks or selfnocks?

Romain · Post by **Romain** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:25 am

Jack, the fletches were 2"3/4 long, based on the quills remains. The back of the quill was positionned 2"1/2 ahead of the nock...

The shaft material is indeed a kind of bamboo. However, the strangest thing is that the fletcher managed to get a barrelled arrow by splitting one side of the bamboo wall in the front and back of the shaft, rasping the exposed edges and then wrapping again the shaft. So in front and back, the arrow is thinner than in the middle...

No idea Jack if they were made for sport, hunt or war... same for quivers

When you check this picture dating from the 1940's, obviously the arrows are quite different.

Pierre, the nocks are self nocks, out of the 3 arrows, 2 nocks are hollow (you can see inside the shaft) and 1 is not (probably made just before a node).

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:58 am

For Jack,
The Tibetans appear to have used their quivers for military uses and military-style horse archery competitions. There are films and photographs showing target archery being practised without any quivers. Sometimes the arrows were tucked into the archer's sash.

This is fairly normal in the Orient. Paintings on the Manchu emperors shooting at target show them without quivers and this is true of other cultures too including the Iranians and the Turks. The Koreans in modern times do not use quivers in target archery nor do the Japanese. All these cultures have a well developed quiver making tradition.

Considering that the Turks referred to a war bow as tirkesh yayi and and used the same word when referring to war arrows, it seems that quivers were associated with war and the hunt. (To our Turkish friends, I am aware that other words were used to refer to war arrows and other words can be used for a quiver than tirkesh.)

Some Persian paintings show the qabaq shooting game performed with arrows stored in the sash when a group of youths are doing it. Other Turkish paintings show the Sultan wearing a quiver when he is performing in front of the court and military officers. I think the occasion determined the equipment and time and place set the fashion. I bet there was always someone who arrived with inappropriate bows and arrows.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:56 am

Yes Bede, this makes perfect sense now that you say it. Thanks for that.

But, Romain, the long sinewing at the end of a bamboo arrow is an India technique. And reworking bamboo just below the leading fletch lash to affect arrow harmonics is another Indopersian technique that we discussed some time past. The arrow points are a mystery to me, reminiscent of the "corn shooting" arrowpoints of the Cherokee of Oklahoma, USA. These would be somewhat fragile for target use of any other types. They could penetrate a mail shirt dandily, but one would probably have seen them before if that were the purpose.

Without some other similar Tibetian prototype to look at, one might look elsewhere for provenience. Try to find someone who can identify the script, if not translate. A good mystery! -j-

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:54 am

The arrow points are a mystery to me, reminiscent of the "corn shooting" arrowpoints of the Cherokee of Oklahoma, USA.

Exactly what I thought! The corn-stalk shoot at Fort Dodge!

But this arrowhead design was also common in Pre-Han China (say 600-200BCE). The purpose is still not clear to me, either. They would deliver a good punch (very heavy bronze arrowheads) on a flat 2mm diameter circle. What would that be good for?

Romain · Post by **Romain** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:00 am

I tried to take a better picture of the writing.

Does anybody know what type of characters it is ?

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:36 am

Romain wrote:I tried to take a better picture of the writing.

Does anybody know what type of characters it is ?

It's cursive Tibetan.

Romain · Post by **Romain** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:58 pm

I thought it might be, after all, I purchased them from a Tibetan.

So for you, they do not match typical tibetan arrows ?

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:21 am

So for you, they do not match typical tibetan arrows ?

These arrows belong to the Southern Tibetan archery tradition, which is closer to Bhutanese archery. Northern arrows are made of barelled wood shafts with low fletching and simple steel points. They are decorated with paint as well as curls of peach bark.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:15 pm

Stephen, very observant.

Romain; If you had a good translation of the inscriptions, the arrows would be worth double as collector items. Is it possible to return to the seller or another, for a translation? And try to get a story about this type of object.