identifying some broadheads

[Murat ?zveri]

I need help to identify these old broadheads found in Malazgirt (Manzikert) where Seldjuk Turks defeated Byzantenian army in 1071.

The first BH on the upper row seems to be older. It's somehow painted.

Anyone has any idea?

[jack farrell]

Murat, Greetings; Here are some ideas.

2.8 and 3.5, Persian. From my own source. Also, McLeod, JSAA 1961, "Homer's three pointed arrows" agrees.
Could be also used by all others of the Levant, ie Hittite, Assyrian, Babylonian. Phylistine. Early Iron age and later.

1.8 and 1.5 upper. Roman army. Have seen from site on Black Sea and identical point from Roman Lybia. At the edge of the modern era.

3.0 Ancient Greek, similar to one from Ephesys with good provenience.

1.5 lower. 1.4, 2.1 and 2.0 Eighter Greek or Scythian. Are undistinguishable from eachother in this style. Late centuries BC.

All of these points would predate your battle. The first one I am not yet ready to guess. Can you post a drawing of the inscription? -j-

[jack farrell]

Murat; A footnote to the McLeod report states, "Mycenaean types include...heavier barbed points with sturdy tang...In Classical and Hellenistic times, one recurrent type is tanged with two barbs and a stop- ridge; it has been identified with the famed Cydonium spiculum of the Cretan mercenary"

By this quote I meant to indicate the large point. Still would be interested to see a drawing of the inscription, if that were possible. -j-

[Bede]

Murat,
I generally agree with Jack. These are all arrowheads of types popular in the Mediterranean and the Near East in the Iron Age and Late Bronze Age.

Three-bladed arrowheads seem to be a Scythian innovation and the variations you have illustrated show how they were modyfied by different cultures.

Malatya was controlled for several hundred years by the Achaemanid Persians. Before them, the Assyrians had expanded into the area. The light weights are usually an indication of shorter arrows associated with the Western Scythian short-draw. The Achaemanids, from their art, used a longer draw, thaough they had heterogeneous armies include Skudra (Western Scythians) and Saka (Eastern Scythians).

The barbed head is harder to identify.

[Murat ?zveri]

Thank you in advance gents.

To help you identifying the barbed one, I'll get a clerar pick after removing the dye on it.

[jack farrell]

Murat; Would still enjoy seeing a close-up of that inscription or a good drawing. This might warrant asking of experts. Don't be in a hurry to clean the point, good info is sometimes destroyed in the process. -j-

[sbartels]

I got this bronze arrowhead. I liked the shape and I know there is only a slim chance of its being genuinely 1500 years old as the seller claimed.
Were arrowheads like that really used? When and where? Could it be modeled after some real type of arrowhead?
It has four blades and is 11.8cm long.

[Murat ?zveri]

Jack and other guys,

Sorry for delay.

Here is a close-up to the point and a re-drawing of the inscription. I hope it helps to get a more detailed identity.

[Murat ?zveri]

close-up and hand-drawn inscription

[Murat ?zveri]

close-up and hand-drawn inscription

[jack farrell]

Murat; I think without much debate this will be accepted as a "tamga" which as you know is a symbol of family or clan association among Turkic peoples and their neighbors. To those who have not seen tamgas, these were ownership marks of anyone with property who wanted identity. Because Turkic peoples of Central Asian origin did not in general learn to read until Islamic times, these marks could be used on anything from a grave to cattle.

My feeling is that the arrowhead was meant to be stood on on its point and seen in that manner, because of Turkish arrow terminology reduntantly names the arrow part up to the nock, called the head.

This tamga looks like hundreds of others published so it will prove impossible to identify if the owner is not already known.

Tamgas were used from 600 bc to the present, from the Arctic to the Persian gulf and from Europe to the heart of India and into China.

But bronze points became more uncommon into the last centuries BC so at least that can be narrowed down. This makes the Mycenean provinence seem quite unlikely. Bede will have more. -j-

[Bede]

Jack is right about the orientation. Even in English, the foot of an arrow is next to the point (that's why they are called footed shafts). I think in Turkish the nock is sometimes called a "head piece".

However, Greek inscribed arrowheads sometimes had the writing running along the axis of the head.

If the arrowhead originated in bronze age Anatolia, it was most likely the product of a state armoury. Early Hittite and Hurrian states used cuneiform characters to write their languages. Cuneiform is very good for incricptions on hard materials like stone and metal despite originaly being used for clay tablets. Later after the collapse of the Hittite state, smaller successor states in Carchemish and other areas developed a pictographic script to write the Hittite language. The sign on the arrowhead looks like neither of these.

It might be a clan sign, as Jack suggests, but equally it might be the sign of some god or goddess. It might be an Akkadian deity like Sin, the moon god, or one of the Hittite gods like their storm god. The Egyptians named their regiments after gods like Ra and Ptath.

[Murat ?zveri]

I highly appreciate both your interest and your deep knowledge.

Tamga, or damga, as it's written and pronounced in today's language was a sign for a Turkic tribe and many of them are available. Many of the turkic tamgas are stylised bow & arrow figures, still used as motifs in carpets and rugs. Especially the tamga of Kayı -the ancestoral tribe of Ottomans- is like "IYI", symbolising two arrows and a bow with a nocked arrow. This tamga was used on the coins of the Sultan Murad II era. Additionally there are so many architectural structures in Anataolia on which such tamgas were used for decoration.

I've a few books listing many of these tamgas but I could not find this one among them. But I admit that further and more detaled research is a must.

This tamga seems to be a 3-head spear, like Poseidon's and was drawn more precisely and detailed compared to many Central Asian tamgas. May it be associated to a sea-related civilisation? Some Helenistic or Ionic one?

By the way, the antropomorphological naming of bow-and arrow parts continued in Ottomans too. The arrow shaft had 24 sections. A certain number of sections make a part of the arrow shaft, so the parts are named after head (bash), neck, chest, belly, leg and foot (ayak). The "foot" is the very front part of the shaft like the western cousins. The arrow always falls onto its front part, that's why this part's named after "foot". The arrowhead (point) is also named "bash" (ok bashi) although it's located at the "opposite end" of the arrow. The "bash" of the shaft is the rear part where the fletching and nock were attached. Bede's comment about the nock "head piece" is another thing that must be explained. The original term is "bashpare" and means "one-piece" rather than "head piece" (although literally, bash means "head" and pare means "piece"). Bashpare means "a one-piece (nock) that is attached to the bash (of the arrow)". The other two nock types are two-piece bakkam nocks and the well-known selfnocks. Bashpare used for the one-piece horn device of some musical blow instruments too. Probably their upper front part is named "bash" too. Just to clarify a terminological confusion...

[Bede]

Thanks Murat for the explanation of bashpare. I was unaware of the idiomatic origin of the term. I have understood it as a single piece, but never knew that the term originally meant that precisely.

[jack farrell]

Thanks Murat, somehow I had assumed that bashpare had something to do with a thumb! (these nocks do look something like a thumb) Ha!