identifying some broadheads

Murat ?zveri · Post by **Murat ?zveri** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:20 pm

Your're welcome.

I can understand why bashpare seems to be related to thumb since thumb means "bashparmak". Bash refers to the "first" finger of the hand again.

istanbuli · Post by **istanbuli** » Fri May 12, 2006 3:03 pm

"bashpare" does not mean "one-piece".
"head piece" is still the only possible translation. (Though literally you may try as "the premier/important piece" or "the piece for head"). As an archery term I tend to understand it as "a rounded (by lathe) one-piece nock made of bone or ivory for an arrow?. The same term is also used to mean the hollow piece made of ivory or hardwood to be attached to the "nay" (musical instrument) of the Rumi's dervishes.
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Murat ?zveri · Post by **Murat ?zveri** » Sat May 13, 2006 6:37 pm

Hi İstanbuli,

Nice to hear s'thin' from u again.

Is that an objection or confirmation? Please note my previous reply.

quote

Bashpare means "a one-piece (nock) that is attached to the bash (of the arrow)". The other two nock types are two-piece bakkam nocks and the well-known selfnocks. Bashpare used for the one-piece horn device of some musical blow instruments too. Probably their upper front part is named "bash" too

unquote

Yes, literally it's "head piece" but as an archery term it's obviously differentiated from the two piece bakkam gez.

istanbuli · Post by **istanbuli** » Sat May 13, 2006 10:07 pm

quoted:

The original term is "bashpare" and means "one-piece" rather than "head piece" (although literally, bash means "head" and pare means "piece")

explained as:

"bashpare" does not mean "one-piece"

So far I had the privilege of having met all the archery related people of this lovely planet. Thank you all very much indeed. I had great time being with you in atarn. I think I have to focus on more doing calligraphy as before. I will be favored too if the moderators could direct me to unsubscribe istanbuli from the atarn member list. Thank you.
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Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sun May 14, 2006 10:39 pm

I think that the discussion is getting confusing for non-Turkish speakers. I think that Murat is approaching this word from the idiomatic point of view of practising archers and Istanbuli is promoting the literary view. Since these are both valid and useful ways of looking at the term, I think we are benefiting from discussion.

I hope Istanbuli will reconsider. Calligraphy is a beautiful art, but archery needs supporters too. The literary expressions related to archery are enriching for us all and there is certainly room enough for different viewpoints in this forum.

Alam ed Din, Adnan · Post by **Alam ed Din, Adnan** » Mon May 15, 2006 12:41 pm

Istanbuli: please stick around.We need your knowledge & your expertise regarding calligraphy as well as bow decoration, verses......etc.

selamler

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:58 pm

Murat and all; This information is from Anthony M Snodgrass, Early Greek Armor and Weapons from the End of the Bronze Age etc..., Edinburg University Press, 1964, pp145-147.

"((This type)) tends to develop a blade of rhombic section, while the boss shrinks to a neat, roughly conical projection at the base of the blade. Type b, which has double curved edges to its blade, is notable for its huge chronoligical range, beginning from the late Bronze Age. (Bittle says that it first appears in the 18th century BC at Bogazkoy, ((north central Turkey)),but he includes under his head the leaf-shaped type without barbs. A number of later examples, from a wide variety of find-spots-Egypt, Knossos, Cyrene, and Byblos- are interesting for the sign which is incised on them. ((See illustration)) Hays is certainly right in seeing this as a ligature of 'B' and 'E', and thus an abbreviation for 'Berenice'; the double curved shape was thus current in the eastern Mediterranean for over a thousand years."

Couldn't help but notice the similarity between your point and this one from Hama, Syria, c. 1200-1075 BC., but dont know if the inscription is from this point or others. Jack

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:55 pm

Jack,
That would mean the inscription would not predate the invention of the Greek alphabet. Incidentally, the most likely Berenice would be one of the queens of Alexander the Great's successors.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:32 am

Or Berenice, Egypt, on the Red Sea coast, trading center of the third century BC.

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:52 am

Here is a similar arrowhead from my collection. It is made of forged, folded bronze. I had assumed that it was Greek Byzantine and the inscription stood for 'basileus' (i.e. beta/sigma: 'royal')

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:45 pm

An expert might be able to identify the time or location of the inscription by the form of the letters. There is a chance that BS or BE might be documented elsewhere in a specific context. However,
the chance of that might be small.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:26 pm

Stephen; Snodgrass dates points of this type from the Bronze Age (after 2000 BC) to the late Archaic (800-500 BC). So your point would fall into that approximate span according to him. To avoid any confusion, would you draw the symbol for us? -j-