Han missile weaponry as compared to Roman missile weaponry

MJuingong · Post by **MJuingong** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:26 am

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On the issue of range/penetration of armour: is that really the point? The point is: how well can you ride a formation of unarmoured horses through a shower of crossbow bolts fired from 200 metres?

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It might be advisable of the crossbow-shooters to figure out how to keep that shower steady.

How quickly could an ordinary crossbowman of the Han Dynasty reload?

Romain · Post by **Romain** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:10 am

jack farrell wrote: My modest #400 crossbow can penetrate formidable objects, and the flight of the bolt cannot be seen.

Jack, could you show us your modest 400 pounds crossbow ?

Ju Yuan Hao can make crossbows; but only if someone supplies a mechanism for him. Romain has one which works well; but the tillering is poor. (If you go for a bamboo leaf-spring prod model, then that should not be such a problem. ) I'll ask him if he can make a mechanism.

Yup, that's easy, just buy an original Han dynasty mechanism and Juyuanhao will build the crossbow around it for you

Chariovalda · Post by **Chariovalda** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:57 am

Stephen Selby wrote:On the issue of range/penetration of armour: is that really the point? The point is: how well can you ride a formation of unarmoured horses through a shower of crossbow bolts fired from 200 metres? Rather you than me.

Yes and no; yes because I'm just curious given the claims sometimes made in those silly Han vs Rome threads (and yes, I understand that question is hard to answer without proper field testing of reliable reconstructions of the weapons, armour and field conditions involved) and no, because I perfectly understand that, in the Han context, it's a weapon used in volleys against largely unarmoured cavalry.

The military historian in me is a bit curious, though (this applies to all missile weapons): would a volley really be effective up to 200 metres (dispersal of the bolts and so on. I am no archery expert, I admit

), or is that just the maximum range of the weapon?

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:20 pm

Romain; Check out under http://198.170.108.27/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=385

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:39 am

It might be advisable of the crossbow-shooters to figure out how to keep that shower steady.

They did it by rotating three ranks of crossbowmen. In Chinese literature, the phrase 'the sound of crossbows being fired was unceasing; the anemy can get nowhere near us.' (弩发不绝声， 敌不与我。).

Reto · Post by **Reto** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:31 pm

Q?n Shǐhu?ngd? (chin. 秦始皇帝 also Y?ng Zh?ng (chin. 嬴政), first emperor of China (from 259 to 210 BC) revolutionized also his Army. Having a look of his Terracotta Army in Xi'an you can see the deployment. Here the troops start with 4 ranks of crossbowmen (rotating), followed by other forces (using bows, lances, swords, chariots). Historical sources also say, the day became dark of the arrows....

Interesting link (in German: http://www.zdf.de/ZDFde/inhalt/11/0,187 ... 07,00.html )

Reto

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:00 am

The excavations at the Qin Emperor's mausoleum have not so far produced any clear evidence of ordinary bows and arrows: only crossbows. Although many Chinese sources about the site refer to 'archers', 'bowmen' and 'bows and arrows', they do so without any archaeological evidence.

rob · Post by **rob** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:44 pm

[Yup, that's easy, just buy an original Han dynasty mechanism and Juyuanhao will build the crossbow around it for you]

Romain, are original han dynasty mechanism really that common in chinese antique markets? Do you know any good places in the hong kong area?
Rob

Romain · Post by **Romain** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:21 am

I was being a bit sarcastic, but were you in Beijing and going regularly to Panjiayuan and Curio City, you would find one quite easily sooner or later.

I have no clue about Hongkong dealers, maybe Stephen knows more...

Diana · Post by **Diana** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:25 pm

Hi I'm back after a long absence.
Stephen, didn't that Han Crossbow stock and lock you sold me have an original lock?
I have had some chance to shoot with the 52# Hwrang bow mounted in it.
It is very accurate despite the lack of sights.
It hits far harder than my 75# New World Arbalest 14th Cent Finn Crossbow using the same weight arrows.
The much longer draw has a lot to do with this.
Sadly, no indoor range in my area will allow crossbows.
I have to visit my friends ranch to shoot it.
I have gotten so little shooting of any kind in a long while.
A bad fall damaged my right shoulder and knee 2 months ago. Only just now back at 100%.

Thomas Duvernay · Post by **Thomas Duvernay** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:44 pm

Welcome back!

T